here's a link to a few hundred other people's description of their experiences with the eCONomy.
Injury Reports filed with the FDA
i distinguish between fraud that costs people their money & fraud that costs people their health or their lives.
admittedly, there's a connection between the 2, where losing half your savings is super-stressful, even for wealthy folks.
people make fun of Lyndon LaRouche, i think partially because they don't hear anything good about him by the US media. i greatly respect the history editor, Anton Chaitkin, for LaRouche's magazine, "EIR". He is the co-author of "George Bush, the Un-Authorized Biography", online at
http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
HOWEVER, i gave them my address, talking on the phone one of their employees offered to send me some copies of EIR. i read them, and got the impression that in term of policy, LaRouche is a lot like FDR, he advocates spending money on public infrastructure e.g. railroads.
then they sent me a bill, for maybe $60. when i dug further, i got the impression that LaRouche went to jail for something related for aggressive billing of elderly customers (sent there by Reagan-Bush or Bush41). i'm still not sure if it was a political witch-hunt, or if they were doing something wrong, e.g. sending magazine to old people and then billing them & scaring them into paying.
i feel like the general integrity of the business world has changed a lot since i got out of college in 1979. then it was drilled into our heads, at my first corporate job, "the customer was always right".
it's much different these days. it's not healthy for me to dwell on. I do feel like ethics in American business have deteriorated a LOT during the last 29 years, and that's it's become a lot more, "the customer is someone you steal from if you can get away with it".
as American corporations become more & more desperate as we go into Peak Oil, i think it's wise to dis-engage as much as possible from them.
PeakOil is You
the eCONomy
Re: the eCONomy
by pedalling_faster » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 17:19:35
http://www.LASIK-Flap.com/ ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery
-
pedalling_faster - Permanently Banned
- Posts: 1399
- Joined: Sat 10 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Re: the eCONomy
by Snowrunner » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 17:26:52
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'I'), however, do know how to replace brakes and rotors... I just can't bleed brake lines by myself and from now on I will not believe anyone who won't show me exactly why on my car that something needs to be done.
I always found it funny how people reacted when I did the small maintenance tasks myself (e.g. swap spark plugs, drain the oil etc.), they could not understand why I did that. It took me the first time ~an hour to do the plugs because the car was a bit different than my previous one (and there were more screws to losen) but seriously. The shop wanted something like $150 in labour alone plus the cost for the plugs.
Retarded, we really got away from even doing the most simple things ourselves.
Now I don't have a car anymore, I ride my bike instead, most of the time I do my own maintenance on it though I had it taken in the other day to have it completely taken apart, mainly because I don't have the space to set up a stand and do it myself, but I do know how to do it....
I think part of this is these days because of the idea that physical labour of any kind is "below people". I remember years ago the sister of my then girlfriend ask me what I was doing for a living and I said: "Something with computers" and her reaction was: "Well thank god, her last b/f was a car mechanic.".
-
Snowrunner - Tar Sands
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Wed 24 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
- Location: Screwed
Re: the eCONomy
by patience » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 17:30:29
A couple years ago we decided we wanted a sunroom/greenhouse added to the south end of our home. I called a local contractor and had him pour a slab for it. Good job, and reasonable at $1,200 including the footers. I had drawn plans, laid brick pillars, made trusses, and had the thing weather tight the first summer. I paid a roofer I know to shingle the roof, but besides that and the slab, I did it all. When the siding was on, I had spent $5,400 for all the materials and labor for the room addition, 8 ft. x 22 ft. outside measurement. The brick matches our home, and it all llooks original. A local general contractor said it would have cost about $12,000 for him to do it all.
Then I saw a commercial for America's Windows! They said CALL NOW! SAVE BIG! TODAY ONLY! If you call in the next 30 minutes, you get another 10% off, or something. So, for fun, I called. An 8 ft. x 20 ft. sunroom, made of light aluminum extrusions and slide-in panels would have cost me about $7,500, not counting the slab. The slab she estimated at $2,500, but said that was minimum, depending on conditions. It took me quite a while to get across to the sales gal that NO, I don't want one, I was just asking the price. NO, I already have one, I just wanted to see how exorbitant your prices were! Heavy duty high pressure sales here.
So. A contractor would do it for $12K, I did it for $5,400 for the bricks-and-mortar high quality version. The shysters wanted $10K+ for a tin-can job. (Erection in ONE DAY! USE YOUR NEW SUNROOM TOMORROW!) I guess somebody has to pay for their storefronts, the pretty girls on their commercials, and the sales staff. But, that will NOT BE ME. I think they are outlaws.
edit: Today, a friend and I finally hung the drywall on the ceiling of this room. Yes, I have diddled around at it for 2 years, maybe a weekend every month or so, but, no strain, no pain, and I saved over $6,000.
Then I saw a commercial for America's Windows! They said CALL NOW! SAVE BIG! TODAY ONLY! If you call in the next 30 minutes, you get another 10% off, or something. So, for fun, I called. An 8 ft. x 20 ft. sunroom, made of light aluminum extrusions and slide-in panels would have cost me about $7,500, not counting the slab. The slab she estimated at $2,500, but said that was minimum, depending on conditions. It took me quite a while to get across to the sales gal that NO, I don't want one, I was just asking the price. NO, I already have one, I just wanted to see how exorbitant your prices were! Heavy duty high pressure sales here.
So. A contractor would do it for $12K, I did it for $5,400 for the bricks-and-mortar high quality version. The shysters wanted $10K+ for a tin-can job. (Erection in ONE DAY! USE YOUR NEW SUNROOM TOMORROW!) I guess somebody has to pay for their storefronts, the pretty girls on their commercials, and the sales staff. But, that will NOT BE ME. I think they are outlaws.
edit: Today, a friend and I finally hung the drywall on the ceiling of this room. Yes, I have diddled around at it for 2 years, maybe a weekend every month or so, but, no strain, no pain, and I saved over $6,000.
Local fix-it guy..
-
patience - Resting in Peace
- Posts: 3180
- Joined: Fri 04 Jan 2008, 04:00:00
Re: the eCONomy
by Sixstrings » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 17:40:17
The only comment I have is that when dealing with salespeople, if you know you're going to say no then just say it early on. Spare them having to go through their whole song and dance when you know you're not going to buy anyway.
Take charge of the purchasing process -- be an assertive customer. Salespeople will appreciate this attitude more than having their time wasted. Trust me, they really don't just want to talk to you and be nice, they are there to get as much money out of you as possible. So if you can't be talked into something, be kind and save them the trouble.
As a former salesman, I know there are industries where the counter help makes nothing if I don't buy extras. That's why I always tip car rental agents. No, I don't need their insurance, but they deserve more than the minimum wage they are making if I don't buy extras. This is good advice for everyone by the way.. give them the tip *before* they pick out the keys. You'll always get either the best car in the class you reserved, or you'll get an upgrade.
Take charge of the purchasing process -- be an assertive customer. Salespeople will appreciate this attitude more than having their time wasted. Trust me, they really don't just want to talk to you and be nice, they are there to get as much money out of you as possible. So if you can't be talked into something, be kind and save them the trouble.
As a former salesman, I know there are industries where the counter help makes nothing if I don't buy extras. That's why I always tip car rental agents. No, I don't need their insurance, but they deserve more than the minimum wage they are making if I don't buy extras. This is good advice for everyone by the way.. give them the tip *before* they pick out the keys. You'll always get either the best car in the class you reserved, or you'll get an upgrade.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Sun 14 Dec 2008, 17:47:06, edited 1 time in total.
-
Sixstrings - Fusion
- Posts: 15160
- Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Re: the eCONomy
by threadbear » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 17:45:56
On the other hand, when shopping for clothes, similar items can be purchased in the men's department for a fraction of the cost.
-
threadbear - Expert
- Posts: 7577
- Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
Re: the eCONomy
by MarkJ » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 18:02:11
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')rom my experience in the HVAC/R and automotive repair industries, I have tons of horror stories about pushy salesmen, bait and switch promotions, poor service and people charging for unnecessary installations, unnecessary parts and/or charging for parts not replaced & services not performed. People often fall for bait and switch free inspection, free extras type promotions.
Customer:
My A/C unit dosen't work, maybe I need some freon!
Service guy:
Nope, the condensing unit is shot and will have to be replaced. We can do that for $1,500
The REAL problem:
The coil was plugged up with leaves. 5 min with the garden hose and it's fixed!:razz:
Just gave a second opinion on a boiler last week. The customer's service guy said the boiler "was shot" and for $6,500 he'd install a new one the next day. Their existing boiler was only 6 years old and had nothing wrong with it other than the fact it hadn't been serviced properly. Had the guy got the job, he would made over 3 grand for a day's work, plus he'd aquire a newer boiler and parts that he'd likely sell to someone else. Luckily the senior customer's son called us for a second opinion. To add insult to injury, the boiler they quoted was an inefficient design and was grossly oversized for the heat loss of the home.
Often you'll see service techs replace more than a few components at the same time, tell customer parts are special order, obsolete or not normally stocked parts so they can charge for running for parts or a second service call.
Sometimes service techs make a lot of money due to their incompetence since they're "parts replacing troubleshooters" Due to their lack of troubleshooting skills, they tend to replace many unnecessary parts and get a lot of call-backs that they charge for as well. To cover their arse, they'll often install additional parts so that the callback will be blamed on additional failed parts.
-
MarkJ - Tar Sands
- Posts: 649
- Joined: Tue 25 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Re: the eCONomy
by vision-master » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 18:24:54
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')rom my experience in the HVAC/R and automotive repair industries, I have tons of horror stories about pushy salesmen, bait and switch promotions, poor service and people charging for unnecessary installations, unnecessary parts and/or charging for parts not replaced & services not performed. People often fall for bait and switch free inspection, free extras type promotions.
Customer:
My A/C unit dosen't work, maybe I need some freon!
Service guy:
Nope, the condensing unit is shot and will have to be replaced. We can do that for $1,500
The REAL problem:
The coil was plugged up with leaves. 5 min with the garden hose and it's fixed!:razz:
Just gave a second opinion on a boiler last week. The customer's service guy said the boiler "was shot" and for $6,500 he'd install a new one the next day. Their existing boiler was only 6 years old and had nothing wrong with it other than the fact it hadn't been serviced properly. Had the guy got the job, he would made over 3 grand for a day's work, plus he'd aquire a newer boiler and parts that he'd likely sell to someone else. Luckily the senior customer's son called us for a second opinion. To add insult to injury, the boiler they quoted was an inefficient design and was grossly oversized for the heat loss of the home.
Often you'll see service techs replace more than a few components at the same time, tell customer parts are special order, obsolete or not normally stocked parts so they can charge for running for parts or a second service call.
Sometimes service techs make a lot of money due to their incompetence since they're "parts replacing troubleshooters" Due to their lack of troubleshooting skills, they tend to replace many unnecessary parts and get a lot of call-backs that they charge for as well. To cover their arse, they'll often install additional parts so that the callback will be blamed on additional failed parts.
Large HVAC companies will do the same to their commerical customers. I worked as an building operator for one of these contractors. All the air handling units would shut down on morning startup on freeze stat. The experts " gave the customer a bid of $100,000 to fix the problem. Every unit just had an incorrect pneumatic control in it's system. When I explained this to the bosses, they couldn't believe it. I could have fixed the prblem with about $500 in parts and a pliers. The building ran in occupied status 24/7.
