[PenultimateManStanding]

FDR is still a hero the left in the US. I'm not sure how the mood of the country really is now, but back in the early 20th Century, Science was God. There was a sense of History as a burden, a weight of blind custom to be done away with in favor of New Improved Scientific Ways. People believed in and made possible great changes. Nobody wants anything to change now. Its coming anyway. There just isn't any ideological agenda to wrap it in. We'll probably see a little bit of everything and a lot of chaos.

[OilsNotWell]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')obody wants anything to change now. Its coming anyway. There just isn't any ideological agenda to wrap it in. We'll probably see a little bit of everything and a lot of chaos.

[rogerhb]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4190298.stm

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he US Mint has seized 10 Double Eagle gold coins - some of the rarest and most valuable in the world - from a woman checking their authenticity.
The Mint says the coins, which never entered circulation, are public property and is holding them at a fort.

[falser]

Not only can they seize your gold, the US can and will seize your shares in gold mining companies:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050822/225303.html?.v=1

I guess nothing is actually safe from the tyranny of a collapsing government. I think I may have to export any gold out of the country for it to be truely a safe haven.

[MountainHiker]

The woman who turned in the coins was an idiot. She should have done a little research on her own before doing something like that.

As for government gold confiscation, my guess is it's on the way. Once they have:
- Got us in debt so deep we'll never get out,
- "fixed" social security by giving all of it to the Wall Street boys,
- Shipped off all all remaining industrial assests of any value,
- then raided the 401 k accounts which are locked into stocks that they'll manipulate to their advantage,
- Then they'll start the gold confiscation.

In the 1930's Americans lined up like idiots to turn in their gold. My guess is if they ask people to voluntarily turn in their gold, about a quarter of those with gold will show up. They'll get raped and deserve it. The rest of the people will be hiding their gold and silver anywhere and every they can. Besides, if the people of this country allow the government to take their gold without a fight, the entire American mythology is gone and this country and all it's BS about freedom will be nothing but a big lie.

[richardmmm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MountainHiker', 'T')he woman who turned in the coins was an idiot. She should have done a little research on her own before doing something like that.

As for government gold confiscation, my guess is it's on the way. Once they have:
- Got us in debt so deep we'll never get out,
- "fixed" social security by giving all of it to the Wall Street boys,
- Shipped off all all remaining industrial assests of any value,
- then raided the 401 k accounts which are locked into stocks that they'll manipulate to their advantage,
- Then they'll start the gold confiscation.

In the 1930's Americans lined up like idiots to turn in their gold. My guess is if they ask people to voluntarily turn in their gold, about a quarter of those with gold will show up. They'll get raped and deserve it. The rest of the people will be hiding their gold and silver anywhere and every they can. Besides, if the people of this country allow the government to take their gold without a fight, the entire American mythology is gone and this country and all it's BS about freedom will be nothing but a big lie.

[cube]

Not to get too far off topic (but it does deal with the gov. authority to seize assets), I remember reading a "news" article where the author tried to portray Saudi Arabia like the bad guys,

"They're making a killing off the sale of oil but the windfall profits is not being reinvested back into the US in the form of treasury bills, etc... unlike previous years like the 70's.

Boo hoo! Cry me a river. I suppose when the president of a nation loudly proclaims that its government reserves the right to seize anyone's financial assests and all they have to do is accuse YOU of being a terrorist (accuse not prove) then I guess we shouldn't be surprised if people are "hessitant" to park their money into America.

BTW if I was a rich man I'd start sending half of my money into overseas accounts as an insurance policy to protect myself against Uncle Sam getting "sticky fingers".

[MountainHiker]

Good point cube - "They're making a killing off the sale of oil but the windfall profits is not being reinvested back into the US in the form of treasury bills, etc... unlike previous years like the 70's."

I like that kind of whining too. We buy their oil so they're supposed to park that money back in our country because...well, uh, because we buy their oil right? The problem is, about the only thing this country has to offer anymore is T-bills. Unless of course the oil producing countries are interested in legal services, wedding planners, sun tanning booths, coffee houses, and home building. That's pretty much the extent of the Amerrican economy anymore.

What else could they put their money into in America? Well, buying a couple of North American gold, silver or uranium mining outfits might pan out once the markety overruns the current manipulators of those commdoities.

Cube's second point - "BTW if I was a rich man I'd start sending half of my money into overseas accounts as an insurance policy to protect myself against Uncle Sam getting 'sticky fingers'."

My guess is most of the really wealthy folks have already diversified on a global basis. If I remember correctly, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have already bought about 1/4 or more of the world's known silver stockpile with an eye for the long term. The dollar's days as the world's reserve currency are numbered, and it's no longer a 5-digit number. Be into gold, silver or foreign currencies before that day arrives.

[rogerhb]

Also it was been claimed that

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he US saving rate of 0% is the fault of the rest of the world saving too much

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'h')ttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4190298.stm

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he US Mint has seized 10 Double Eagle gold coins - some of the rarest and most valuable in the world - from a woman checking their authenticity.
The Mint says the coins, which never entered circulation, are public property and is holding them at a fort.

[silverity]

Roosevelt is alive and well!

Roosevelt Redivivus

Gold and silver are still the two best investments, however, the form you hold them in andthe timing of your exit from them allied with a firm eye on what government is threatening will decide how much of your wealth will avoid confiscation and high taxes.

Silverity

New Era Investor for Peak Oil Investing!

[MountainHiker]

From the looks of things, the manipulators are doing a good enough job playing the prices of silver and gold these days that the government won't need to confiscate it. They'll just manipulate the price low enough and most people will just sell rather than take the loss. That way they still get what they want but they don't look like thugs.

They'll still wave a flag and boast of freedom and free market myths while doing this. And of course the sheople will buy it all and never question anything.

[silverity]

That's okay for a pre-peak oil society. When Peak Oil becomes publci knowledge, no government on earth could resist the tsunami of buy orders without depleting their entire gold reserves.

And, of course, they have no silver reserves to speak of.

Peak Oil changes the script for everyone.

Silverity

New Era Investor for Peak Oil Investing!

[gego]

When Roosevelt stole gold from citizens gold was money, and the population was unbelievably niave. Actually it was Nixon who stole silver as it was money until 1964.

The reason it was taken was both to force people to use unbacked paper money so that purchasing power (wealth) could be stolen systematically into the future from the populus by the banks and the government. Plus they kept a large portion of the gold for themselves, under the control of the federal reserve bank.

What would be the point of confinscating gold? They have a good part of it now and they are and can continue to force you to use paper money. The idea that gold and silver will be taken in the future from you is bogus in my view. Most people these days would not turn it in anyway, and it would be difficult to enforce such a raid. Just think about it a second; back when Roosevelt stole gold everyone had it; now only those knowledgeable enough have it and this is the class that are more rebelious. It is much easier to just tax and inflate away your wealth, just like they do now.

[Heineken]

The fear of govt. confiscation of gold is archaic. Yes, it happened on a limited basis in the 1930s, but it was essentially unenforceable back then and it is even more unenforceable today. The whole idea is ridiculous, but the myth lives on . . .

Only a small percentage of U.S. citizens actually own a significant amount of gold, in any case. I don't know what the percentage is, but it has to be small, particularly in view of the 0.1% savings rate. The government will have bigger fish to fry as it enters its death throes.

[silverity]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gego', 'W')hat would be the point of confinscating gold? They have a good part of it now and they are and can continue to force you to use paper money. The idea that gold and silver will be taken in the future from you is bogus in my view. Most people these days would not turn it in anyway, and it would be difficult to enforce such a raid. Just think about it a second; back when Roosevelt stole gold everyone had it; now only those knowledgeable enough have it and this is the class that are more rebelious. It is much easier to just tax and inflate away your wealth, just like they do now.

[silverity]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')he fear of govt. confiscation of gold is archaic. Yes, it happened on a limited basis in the 1930s, but it was essentially unenforceable back then and it is even more unenforceable today. The whole idea is ridiculous, but the myth lives on . . .

Only a small percentage of U.S. citizens actually own a significant amount of gold, in any case. I don't know what the percentage is, but it has to be small, particularly in view of the 0.1% savings rate. The government will have bigger fish to fry as it enters its death throes.

[silverity]

That's okay for a pre-peak oil society. When Peak Oil becomes publci knowledge, no government on earth could resist the tsunami of buy orders without depleting their entire gold reserves.

And, of course, they have no silver reserves to speak of.

Peak Oil changes the script for everyone.

Silverity

New Era Investor for Peak Oil Investing!

[aahala]

What possible motivation would the government have in conficating
gold or silver because oil supplies decline?

The two subjects have as much in common as saying the government
will conficate my high school yearbook when oil becomes short.

[Heineken]

Silverity: You haven't responded to a key point: that most Americans today don't own gold (other than some jewelry) and will probably never own gold. Back in the 1930s, though, gold bullion ownership was widespread. So the government had to deal with gold in order to protect its threatened currency. The situation today is completely different.

There's no way to know exactly how many Americans did or didn't turn in all their gold in the 1930s, and we obviously differ in our opinions on that. My guess, based on my familiarity with human nature, is that most owners turned in only some, or none, of their gold (unless it was in safety deposit boxes---a dumb place to keep gold---which were seized). The value of gold was and is intrinsic; the value of paper was and is not intrinsic.

Come 2010 or 2015 or whenever the economy collapses, I'm trying to imagine "patriotic" Americans turning in their gold in exchange for worthless paper. It ain't gonna happen.