[dohboi]

Thanks for the reference, Slow. That's the kind of help that makes this forum so priceless.

[nocar]

MacG, yes I too take a certain comfort in the likelyhood that there just will not be enough fossil carbon available for humanity to put into the atmosphere to reach the highest levels of CO2 predicted by the models.

However, so far humanity has burnt about half of all oil available, but less than half of natural gas and coal, as I understand the situation. Global warming is already happening with the less than half of CO2 we have already put out, and there is a great delay in the warming effects. It simply takes time for the ground surfaces, lakes and seas to absorb the extra heat. And there might be very serious 'positive' feedback mechanisms. So there is certainly enough fossil carbons for humanity to burn to create a problem.

Add to this the non-fossil carbon sources: Forests and peat, which also might be burnt increasingly (Logging and land clearing of agriculture, wild fires, wood for cooking and heating, peat starting to burn, or peat 'mining' for fuel.

So even if Gore et al are wrong about the amount of fossil carbon that can be burned, they can to be right about the problem (which I have been convinced they are).

My own hope lies in a great depression lasting a century or so, that really slows down global economic activitiy and the rate of fossil fuel burning, and also is accompanyed by a global reduction in birth rates. Surely, the least painful kind of dieoff must be fewer births while people still live to see their one or two grandchildren. Some of the many pollutants we (humanity) put out seem to have the effect of reducing fertility - perhaps a great blessing in disguise.

nocar

[dissident]

Economics is driving coal fueled power plant building around the world. Indonesia is going to triple its coal use because its oil production has collapsed. Russia is going to convert from natural gas to coal for electricity generation (aside from nuclear and hydro) because gas exports bring in more money. China is building them like crazy already. The decline phase of fossil fuel consumption will actually crank up the CO2 emissions compared to the buildup phase since coal and "liquid coal" (bitumen) are going to make up a larger fraction of the fuel burned.

[Cashmere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou really think he's that bad for getting some attention while trying to point out we may be damaging our environment?

[dohboi]

Great. Go ahead. You will quickly banish this thread to the house of flames, where it probably belongs anyway.

You have some great postings on other topics, but you would just embarrass yourself by further postings here.

[smallpoxgirl]

Jevon in action.

[cipi604]

Al Gore is that guy who is spending big bucks on big houses , driving big nice cars and flies every day in a jet engine airplane? No way, he cares too much about the planet to do that! [/sarcasm]

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

Gores' done a good job of Rearranging deck chairs on the good ship Industrial Civilization.

[Kingcoal]

Gore reminds me of the rich environmentalist/hippy from the sixties. He talks out of both sides of his mouth. I hate to do it, but I'll use a quote from GWB. Regarding increasing taxes, Bush made a funny but true comment saying that if you want higher taxes, the IRS has no problem with you overpaying your current taxes. In fact, the IRS will gladly accept any extra donations without any problem whatsoever. The moral of the story is that you have to put your money where your mouth is. Most all people who "want" higher taxes are talking about other people's taxes, not their own. It's the same with other things that people scold other people about. If you are preaching environmentalism 24/7, but live like every other rich person; consuming as much as possible, then you are a hypocrite.

[Forney2008]

Not to defend the man, but what would his energy use be by use per square foot. Considering he has such a large house compared to most Americans, would it not be more appropriate to compare the average American's home energy use per square foot to that of Al Gore's use to see just how much of an "energy hog" Al Gore really is?

[lawnchair]

His electric bill went up primarily because of replacing furnaces with heat pumps. I'm betting his natural gas bill went down substantially.

Of course, my 2-person bungalow uses about 1/42nd of Al's house in electricity (i.e., less than half the national average). On another thread, we found several PO members who use even less.

Sadly, though, Al would be mercilessly mocked if he took the Jerry Brown/Ralph Nader approach and demonstrated real energy efficiency. As much as I'd love to see Al and Tipper hanging clothes on a clothesline, Jay Leno wouldn't stop razzing him on it.

The fluorescent bulb thing is acceptable, because that involved *buying* something. Clotheslines/bikes/transit are not acceptable to most, because they involve *doing* something.

[joelcolorado]

Reminds me of the Kennedy that was on Hannity and Combs. He was touting small cars and houses and cutting back for everyone. When nailed down, he admitted to having 3 homes and flying private jets to his appearances. And to having 3 SUV's etc.
His excuse was that he NEEDS those things as opposed to the masses. He said if you NEED them they areokay to have.

Al is the same, he flies all over the globe bullshitting and making money off the green movement and consumes millions of times more energy than I will ever use. BUT HE NEEDS it. See the difference?

I laugh at the movie stars driving a prius and having 3 homes or 40,000 sq ft homes at the same time, flying all over the world etc. Its so disgusting but the media never calls them on it. OH NO, dont touch the stars. John Travolta has 5 jets and preaches conservation to ME. Get out of here.

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'B')ush made a funny but true comment saying that if you want higher taxes, the IRS has no problem with you overpaying your current taxes. In fact, the IRS will gladly accept any extra donations without any problem whatsoever. The moral of the story is that you have to put your money where your mouth is.

[Cashmere]

Al Gore - The man who put the "douche" in "douche bag."

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joelcolorado', 'I') laugh at the movie stars driving a prius and having 3 homes or 40,000 sq ft homes at the same time, flying all over the world etc. Its so disgusting but the media never calls them on it. OH NO, dont touch the stars. John Travolta has 5 jets and preaches conservation to ME. Get out of here.

[joelcolorado]

You cannot defend Als multiple homes nor his jet setting around the world on private jets. Nor his making $100 million so far on his GREEN investments. Those are facts and he admits to them.

Its like the rich evangellist begging for money for the poor and sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars. Hypocrisy at any level smells to high heaven

[dsula]

does anybody know how it's even possible to burn that much electricity. Seriously, what is he doing. Having an aluminum smelter in the basement?

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joelcolorado', 'Y')ou cannot defend Als multiple homes nor his jet setting around the world on private jets. Nor his making $100 million so far on his GREEN investments. Those are facts and he admits to them.

Its like the rich evangellist begging for money for the poor and sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars. Hypocrisy at any level smells to high heaven

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', 'd')oes anybody know how it's even possible to burn that much electricity. Seriously, what is he doing. Having an aluminum smelter in the basement?

[aflurry]

two analyses back up the TRCR claim - to a point:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/govern ... energy.htm
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

Three comments however:

1. The TPRC claims they use 20 times more than the average household. The AP says it's closer to 12 times. not to mention the house is a large and apparently old building.
2. Both he and his wife run businesses out of the house, so adjustments should be made for that.
3. His main defense is that he chooses energy from renewable sources, and that he buys offsetting carbon credits. no comment here about the effectiveness of this strategy. it's one of those complicated interplays between physical resources and economy... hard to predict.

The urbanlegends conclusion is that yes, the high energy usage is true, but that no, he's not a hypocrite because his offsetting scheme is consistent with his recommendations.