[Maddog78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'A') cheetah chases the gazelle because she is hungry and wants to catch it and eat it. The cheetah doesn't calculate the EROEI, it just feels its hunger. Over time though, if the cheetah hasn't figured out how to catch the gazelle using less energy than it gets from eating it, the cheetah will perish.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'A') cheetah chases the gazelle because she is hungry and wants to catch it and eat it. The cheetah doesn't calculate the EROEI, it just feels its hunger. Over time though, if the cheetah hasn't figured out how to catch the gazelle using less energy than it gets from eating it, the cheetah will perish.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', 'I')f the project theoretically can make a ROI, it goes ahead.

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', ' ')As such, Capital Return on Capital Invested (a.k.a. ROI) is synonymous with Energy Returned on Energy Invested.

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')You asked for a reference, petroleum professional who studies eroei, net energy analysis.

[SeaGypsy]

Seems like an argument in semantics.
Strictly speaking each side is correct.
It is all about EROEI.
It is also all about ROI.
The difference is in exchange rates for energy.
Energy has long been unrealisticly cheap, especially in developed nations.
That is in the process of change.

[Maddog78]

LOL.

What?

One chart ends where the other one begins.
If you're going to troll at least make it a bit believable.

Storage capacity was nearly 100% full and prices were dropping so therefore rigs should have kept drilling at the same rate?

LOL.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', ' ')As such, Capital Return on Capital Invested (a.k.a. ROI) is synonymous with Energy Returned on Energy Invested.

[Maddog78]

Keep making up numbers if it makes you happy.

I can do it, too.

99% of all people who live in treehouses in Northern Cal. are internet experts and are morons. The graphs prove it.

LOL.

[AirlinePilot]

Twilliam has it right, that's the bottom line. Over the long haul money gets created to do things based on growth. This money is expected to make a RETURN. When one of the largest reasons to create money becomes unable to grow anymore..guess what happens?

Twilliam,

I applaud you for distilling it succinctly and simply. Its all about the ability to grow or not to grow. At some point very soon, it will become common/mainstream knowledge. Thats when EROEI or ROI becomes the determining factor. We just haven't quite gotten there yet so the debate rages. Those who understand the meaning of plateauing/peaking resources(esp. Oil) understand what must happen. The creation of money depended upon the fact that they grow. We are seeing the paradigm change right in front of our eyes. Some choose to believe what they are seeing, others do not. The consequences are large and without rapid replacement in some sort of usable and grow-able resource our money system will ultimately fail.

How you choose the side with which you agree or disagree simply comes down to do you believe Oil can grow from where we are or not.

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', 'L')OL.

What?

One chart ends where the other one begins.
If you're going to troll at least make it a bit believable.

Storage capacity was nearly 100% full and prices were dropping so therefore rigs should have kept drilling at the same rate?

LOL.

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', ' ')As such, Capital Return on Capital Invested (a.k.a. ROI) is synonymous with Energy Returned on Energy Invested.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', 'c')ommon sense,

[ian807]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', 'I') have made this post many times so I'm only going to repeat myself one more time.

I'm sure EROEI is a fine concept and makes sense in theory.
It probably is easy to calculate for nuclear or ethanol or even tar sands but it is nearly impossible to calculate with any accuracy for conventional onshore or offshore oil wells so therefore it is not taken into account when planning a project.

I have 30 years experience in the oil industry and have been involved in many domestic and international projects.
The term EROEI has never come up, not one single time in any relation whatsoever with any project.

If the project theoretically can make a ROI, it goes ahead.

Now it could well be that a bad EROEI is also a bad ROI project. I won't dispute that but EROEI is not used in the oil industry in planning or executing projects.
The only thing that matters is, can it make money, period.

What is your experience in planning oil field projects?
Can you show me a single project where an oil company has used EROEI?

I already know the answer to this since short has asked the question multiple times on this board and no one has ever produced a single example.

Last post from me on this issue.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', 'I') have made this post many times so I'm only going to repeat myself one more time.

I'm sure EROEI is a fine concept and makes sense in theory.
It probably is easy to calculate for nuclear or ethanol or even tar sands but it is nearly impossible to calculate with any accuracy for conventional onshore or offshore oil wells so therefore it is not taken into account when planning a project.

I have 30 years experience in the oil industry and have been involved in many domestic and international projects.
The term EROEI has never come up, not one single time in any relation whatsoever with any project.

If the project theoretically can make a ROI, it goes ahead.

Now it could well be that a bad EROEI is also a bad ROI project. I won't dispute that but EROEI is not used in the oil industry in planning or executing projects.
The only thing that matters is, can it make money, period.

What is your experience in planning oil field projects?
Can you show me a single project where an oil company has used EROEI?

I already know the answer to this since short has asked the question multiple times on this board and no one has ever produced a single example.

Last post from me on this issue.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '
')However, on small-scale operations, such as on-farm ethanol plants, EROEI is irrelevant because the energy from ethanol can be so much more useful for certain applications than solar, beets and wood.