[Muckingfess]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'W')hat will happen if individual states begin to assert their sovereignty proactively? Texas already has ERCOT, what if they demand that gasoline exports be curbed? This could become an issue before hitting the MOL, I think, through legislative earmarks for citizenry. Before the TRC took control OK was demanding it receive its fair share of quota - the Iran to Texas's SA, sort of. And of course their legislature recently declared its 10th Amendment rights against the Fed.

Beats me what Oregon could bring to the table. Anybody trade a few barrels for some tasty filberts? Oh yeah, we've got heaps of hydro. Now, how would you hoard that?

[lotrfan55345]

The US is more divided by urban/rural lines than regions, according to various demographic and election maps...

[ReducedToZero]

Long live the California Republic... hahha we're f***ed

[Micki]

Anyone knows the status of this?

Oklahoma declares sovereignty

I know it went through state senate three times but haven't heard more about it since.

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Muckingfess', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'W')hat will happen if individual states begin to assert their sovereignty proactively? Texas already has ERCOT, what if they demand that gasoline exports be curbed? This could become an issue before hitting the MOL, I think, through legislative earmarks for citizenry. Before the TRC took control OK was demanding it receive its fair share of quota - the Iran to Texas's SA, sort of. And of course their legislature recently declared its 10th Amendment rights against the Fed.

Beats me what Oregon could bring to the table. Anybody trade a few barrels for some tasty filberts? Oh yeah, we've got heaps of hydro. Now, how would you hoard that?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '
')here's a thought... we just cut off a few of your major rivers, i.e., the rio, pecos, that sort of thing?

[bshirt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'I')f you're really interested in this subject, you might want to read The Untied States of America: Polarization, Fracturing, and Our Future.

Yes, that's "Untied," not "United." He argues that historically, nations are not static. Just viewed through the lens of history...the chance of the US surviving as it is is unlikely.

With peak oil, I think it's even more likely we will break up. Centralized government has an energy cost. The world will get larger, and it will get more and more difficult for Washington to call the shots all over the country. It will simply become more efficient for local government to do things that the feds do now.

Politically speaking, it could be argued that we've never really healed from the Civil War. A lot of the Red vs. Blue state divide is geographically the same as the South vs. the North. As times get tougher, I think a lot of these old schisms will intensify.

[Sixstrings]

I really don't get the whole secessionist movement. Yes, the federal government is bad, but has anyone taken a hard a look at state governments lately? Oh man, talk about corrupt, incompetent, short-sighted, etc. And as someone else mentioned, there are economies of scale involved. If your state became independent, then taxes would have to go up since you'll have the new massive task of building up a military.

This is all just silly talk, of course. No states will ever secede, it was a very big deal and hard decision even back in the 1860's, and the world is so much different now -- the states are FAR less culturally / racially centric, etc. So it's all just fantasy talk.. the US is fully homogenized now, and without very strong regional cultural identities, you could never have secession.

And again, it's just silly anyway to somehow think your state government would do a better job than the Feds. Heck, even the Confederate constitution was pretty much and exact copy of the US Constitution, just a few small differences like a presidential line item veto.

[bshirt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I') really don't get the whole secessionist movement. Yes, the federal government is bad, but has anyone taken a hard a look at state governments lately? Oh man, talk about corrupt, incompetent, short-sighted, etc. And as someone else mentioned, there are economies of scale involved. If your state became independent, then taxes would have to go up since you'll have the new massive task of building up a military.

This is all just silly talk, of course. No states will ever secede, it was a very big deal and hard decision even back in the 1860's, and the world is so much different now -- the states are FAR less culturally / racially centric, etc. So it's all just fantasy talk.. the US is fully homogenized now, and without very strong regional cultural identities, you could never have secession.

And again, it's just silly anyway to somehow think your state government would do a better job than the Feds. Heck, even the Confederate constitution was pretty much and exact copy of the US Constitution, just a few small differences like a presidential line item veto.

[Cloud9]

To understand secession, you have to follow the money. At the founding of the republic, the southern states led by Virginia were the economic and political power houses of the day. Alexander Hamilton in his effort to concentrate wealth in the hands of a few, brokered a deal that set up the political capital in the south and the economic capital in the north.

At first, the southerners did not grasp the devil’s bargain they had made. The concentration of wealth industrialized the north and created a huge demand for cheap labor. This demand for labor caused northern populations to explode. This concentration of wealth and population shifted political power to the north.

Tariffs were passed that benefited northern workers at the expense of southern consumers. Workers toiling away in factories for pennies feared slaves would take their jobs. The British navy ended the lucrative slave trade that had enriched northeaster shipping interest. The abolition movement was born.

Dialog between the north and south devolved into screaming contests. Communication ceased. Southerners feared that slaves freed by northern abolitionists would take their revenge. Secessionitis was born.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bshirt', 'I')'ll take my chances without the Federal govt and the Federal Reserve. I think the Midwest/South can and will adapt to the loss of the welfare state relatively quite easily. We'll see my compadre'....

[Ludi]

As a rule the red states get more federal support versus taxes paid than blue states. So Dumfuckistan will definitely miss its federal $$ if it breaks away. Not to mention the income from the military, which is huge in places like Texas.

[Cloud9]

If the cut back in military becomes serious this trend may reverse. Demographics is another issue. Over half my class is on free and reduced lunch.

[TheAntiDoomer]

"why the feeling the us will break up in the future?"

perhaps you ingested too many shrooms?

[gollum]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Natio ... th_America

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')s a rule the red states get more federal support versus taxes paid than blue states. So Dumfuckistan will definitely miss its federal $$ if it breaks away. Not to mention the income from the military, which is huge in places like Texas.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ')the only point I wanted to make is that I don't understand why people assume their state government would somehow become a lily white knight on a horse and supposedly do so much better than the federal government.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'H')ere in Texas, there is limited state government. To many people, limited = good, even if what little government there is might be terrifically corrupt, at least it is small.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'T')ake away all that and guess what, Texas would have to come up with some kind of social safety net.