[mcgowanjm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', ' ')and it would mean jobs for many of our people and weapons
factories (notice we still kept all of our weapons factories).
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Me', '
')The Chinese destroyed their navy first. An unfortunate trait that we seem to be following:

Steel is the most important 'war' construct and we don't make steel in the US anymore. And ships. We don't do ships either.

[pablonite]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heinberg', 'I')ncreasingly I am forced to conclude that the object of the game that world leaders are actually playing is not to avoid collapse; it's simply to postpone it a while so as to be the last nation to go down, so yours can have the chance to pick the others' carcasses before it meets the same fate.

[Ainan]

It's hardly a 'contest' when America is running backwards. As Heinberg mentioned, America is attacking petrostates while China is throwing money at them, then America is shocked that states are flocking to China's influence. Hell even Australia is. China is rapidly rolling out coal, nuclear, solar, hydro and wind energy, full steam ahead. America is too scared (and broke) to build more infrastructure because it is akin to farting cows and will cause the global warming apocalypse. China only pays lip service to the delusions of the declining West but is taking all the useful bits.

I've posted this picture before but hopefully someone will get a laugh out of it.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')It would be nice to think that we could skirt under the radar with our doomsteads but I don't know if that will be possible.

[Ludi]

In what year do you all expect federal taxes to rise significantly for the middle class?

[rangerone314]

Dubious bragging rights...

And to previous question, probably late 2010 early 2011...

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '
')
And to previous question, probably late 2010 early 2011...

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')It would be nice to think that we could skirt under the radar with our doomsteads but I don't know if that will be possible.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')How do you see the federal debt resolving itself?

[mike3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', 'F')ROM HEINBERG
http://www.energybulletin.net/node/51425

[Revi]

Heinberg didn't even mention that the Fed is already buying 80% of Treasuries, as of 2009.

He and Greer have similar views. Greer thinks it's going to happen soon. He writes that the time of preparation is over, and the time of consequences is here.

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/

I am betting on some portion of the US being around in 10 or 15 years.

It may not be a great place to live, but I can't go to China, so this will have to do.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '
')
And to previous question, probably late 2010 early 2011...

[eXpat]

China Takes Aim at U.S. on Economy
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')EIJING—Premier Wen Jiabao aimed sharp words at Washington on Sunday, ceding little ground on China's currency policy and suggesting that U.S. efforts to boost its exports by weakening the dollar amounted to "a kind of trade protectionism."

In his once-yearly news conference, Mr. Wen blamed U.S. weapons sales to Taiwan and President Barack Obama's meeting with Tibet's spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, for causing a recent deterioration in what he called China's most important foreign relationship.

"These moves have violated China's territorial integrity," Mr. Wen said. "The responsibility does not lie with the Chinese side but with the United States." Mr. Wen said a good China-U.S. relationship "makes both sides winners while a confrontational one makes both sides losers."
Mr. Wen went into detail about his personal role at the Copenhagen climate talks late last year, showing flashes of emotion as he sought to correct a widespread belief that he snubbed Mr. Obama by sending a lower-ranking official to a meeting. "My conscience is clear despite the slander of others," he said, quoting an ancient Chinese proverb. Instead, he argued, it was China that felt insulted.

Mr. Wen's forthright comments reflect a new dynamic in what is arguably the most important bilateral relationship in the world. As the only major economy still growing strongly, and the largest creditor to the U.S., China is behaving with new assertiveness. Beijing has emerged from the global recession with a fresh confidence about its state-led economy, which has delivered stimulus projects—everything from high-speed railways to highways and bridges—with remarkable efficiency. At the same time, it makes no secret of its disdain for U.S. economic management, and is in no mood to be lectured by Washington about how to support the world economy.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', 'K')ind of like duality don't you? Us or them. Kind of keeping with the American
trait as of late of screwing off, racking up the credit to the max, and then
going to war when the behavior comes home to roost.

Let's send them a letter.

Dear China,
Our leadership has gone snake, we are spoiled by your cheap stuff
and can't lay off it, we have used up your savings you loaned us and
need some more. If this keeps up, could we borrow enough money
to send our army over to kick your ass? It would stir us up and unify
us, and it would mean jobs for many of our people and weapons
factories (notice we still kept all of our weapons factories). And don't
start in with the fact that we did this to ourselves because we are not
that stoopit.

J6P

P.S. Could you send some cheap ammo to Wal Mart so we can hedge
against things getting bad here while we wait for the loan to allow us to
come over and tangle with you guys?

[Googolplex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '.')..So unless some kind of new tax manifests itself (like a tax for merely being alive)...

[dorlomin]

America is a democracy with a free press. It has mechanisms to change the personel and dirction of a government and for the point to point to the glaring mistakes its government is making.

The past 400 years of history shows that democrcies are far far better systems at innovating and adapting. Centralised dictatorships often look good for short periods. When they are doing something right it tends to get done thoroughly. But from Louis XIV through to the politboro in Moscow they all fail in the struggle against freer socities.

China has dazzled the world and its easy to buy all the glitter and dazzle. But they have done so by being cheap and undercutting everyone else. That was the easy bit, catch up growth. The hard part will be satisfying the various competing needs of the country once people feel the country 'has made it'. People will feel the government owes them. All the corruption and nepotism centered around the party will tell heavily on peoples opinions and if there is not conitnued growth the faith in the party will wain quickly.

This may be a very unfashionable opinion to have but I think that while America has cocked up badly over the past decade they have the 'software' the social systems to rely on too dig themselves out of the hole. The society and political model also means people can buy into the system, feel they have a stake in it.