[hardtootell-2]

While I am not without compassion for the terrible suffering in Haiti, I see it as only an acute phase of what they have been going through for a long time. I agree that education and family planning may help a little but I think the ship to sustainability has long since sailed. The world, and particularly places like Haiti are way over their carrying capacity. Nature will force a correction.

Traditional values, such as charity and motherhood have been turned on their head by overpopulation. Most people cannot come to terms with that psychologically.

I would not stand in front of the population freight train clutching the wilted daisy of yesterdays values as it hurls full speed over the cliff of population reduction.

Just my 2 cents

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'W')hy are they still worrying about water?

25 C17 cargo planes operating 5 missions a day can drop 2 million gallons of water on Haiti.

One cargo ship can do the same.

It's absurd that the logisticians can't figure this out.

[mcgowanjm]

The first thing I noted was that Port Au Prince's Pop
was reduced from 3 to 2 million.

Next, that the US journalists were telling feel good
stories of thousands being helped.

Next, that the CVN Vincent had run out of supplies
and that only US planes were being allowed to land.

One million will die:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kunstler', 'A')merican authority pretends to be in flawless control of a situation that by the minute crumbles into anarchy and death as the generals strut their stuff and the CNN crews broadcast yet another feel-good segment about adopted orphans. At this point, one rainstorm is all it will take to kill what is left of the Haitian social order.

[Ferretlover]

What it boils down to is that 'beggars Can be choosers.' When given handouts, the receivers come to expect it and will quickly adapt to the new form of dispersement of supplies for their lifestyle.
And, will not return to taking care of themselves unless forced, harshly, to do so. While many people, corporations and countries may feel compassion for those whose lives are severely disrupted by some act of nature, supplying aid is only an incomplete plan A.
For some reason, which I've never figured out, should the givers ever decide to stop giving, they are made to feel as though they are morally bankrupt.
There are going to be a lot of unhappy people when the aid stops because of declining resources.

[mcgowanjm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', 'W')hat it boils down to is that 'beggars Can be choosers.' When given handouts, the receivers come to expect it and will quickly adapt to the new form of dispersement of supplies for their lifestyle.
And, will not return to taking care of themselves unless forced, harshly, to do so. While many people, corporations and countries may feel compassion for those whose lives are severely disrupted by some act of nature, supplying aid is only an incomplete plan A.
For some reason, which I've never figured out, should the givers ever decide to stop giving, they are made to feel as though they are morally bankrupt.
There are going to be a lot of unhappy people when the aid stops because of declining resources.

[eXpat]

Some things never change...
Protected By Armed Guards, Luxury Cruise Passengers Still Docking at Private Beaches in Haiti
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ixty miles from Haiti's devastated earthquake zone, luxury liners dock at private beaches where passengers enjoy jetski rides, parasailing and rum cocktails delivered to their hammocks.

The 4,370-berth Independence of the Seas, owned by Royal Caribbean International, disembarked at the heavily guarded resort of Labadee on the north coast on Friday; a second cruise ship, the 3,100-passenger Navigator of the Seas is due to dock.

The Florida cruise company leases a picturesque wooded peninsula and its five pristine beaches from the government for passengers to "cut loose" with watersports, barbecues, and shopping for trinkets at a craft market before returning on board before dusk. Safety is guaranteed by armed guards at the gate.

The decision to go ahead with the visit has divided passengers. The ships carry some food aid, and the cruise line has pledged to donate all proceeds from the visit to help stricken Haitians. But many passengers will stay aboard when they dock; one said he was "sickened".

"I just can't see myself sunning on the beach, playing in the water, eating a barbecue, and enjoying a cocktail while [in Port-au-Prince] there are tens of thousands of dead people being piled up on the streets, with the survivors stunned and looking for food and water," one passenger wrote on the Cruise Critic internet forum.

"It was hard enough to sit and eat a picnic lunch at Labadee before the quake, knowing how many Haitians were starving," said another. "I can't imagine having to choke down a burger there now.''

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eXpat', ':')x Some things never change...
Protected By Armed Guards, Luxury Cruise Passengers Still Docking at Private Beaches in Haiti

[gampy]

I had caught a few minutes of CNN's coverage of the events in Haiti, and it struck me that CNN et al are the real dealers in what Naomi Klein calls "Disaster Capitalism".

It was such a sickening and cynical moment to see these buffoons (Sanjay Gupta, the Vanderbilt scion..what's his name? Anderson Cooper, et al) parading around the place looking for ways to look heroic. I see that CNN has no trouble getting into, and out of Haiti. I am curious how their ad revenue changes from slow news weeks to shit like this. And people give arms dealers, and Blackwater Mercs a bad name?

Reminds me of a song...

Eye on the TV
'cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavour
It happens to be, like;
Killed by the husband
Drowned by the ocean
Shot by his own son
She used the poison in his tea
And kissed him goodbye
That's my kinda story
It's no fun 'til someone dies

Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie
While the mother
Holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky crying
Why, oh why?
'cause I need to watch things die
From a distance

Vicariously I, live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie

Why can't we just admit it?
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither the brave nor bold
The writers of stories sold
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing

I need to watch things die
From a good safe distance

Vicariously I, live while the whole world dies
You all feel the same so
Why can't we just admit it?

Blood like rain come down
Pound on grave and ground

Part vampire
Part warrior
Carnivore
and Voyeur
Stare at the transmittal
Sing to the death rattle

Credulous at best your desire to believe in
Angels in the hearts of men
Pull your head on out of your hippie haze
And give a listen
Shouldn't have to say it all again
The universe is hostile
So impersonal
Devour to survive, so it is
So it's always been

We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire

Vicariously I, live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]France accused the US of "occupying" Haiti on Monday as thousands of American troops flooded into the country to take charge of aid efforts and security.

The French minister in charge of humanitarian relief called on the UN to "clarify" the American role amid claims the military build up was hampering aid efforts.
Alain Joyandet admitted he had been involved in a scuffle with a US commander in the airport's control tower over the flight plan for a French evacuation flight.

"This is about helping Haiti, not about occupying Haiti," Mr Joyandet said.

Geneva-based charity Medecins Sans Frontieres backed his calls saying hundreds of lives were being put at risk as planes carrying vital medical supplies were being turned away by American air traffic controllers.

But US commanders insisted their forces' focus was on humanitarian work and last night agreed to prioritise aid arrivals to the airport over military flights, after the intervention of the UN.

The diplomatic row came amid heightened frustrations that hundreds of tons of aid was still not getting through. Charities reported violence was also worsening as desperate Haitians took matters into their own hands.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/haiti/7020908/US-accused-of-occupying-Haiti-as-troops-flood-in.html

[mcgowanjm]

^
^
^<<<After Katrina why is anyone surprised.

If bush43 was put in charge of getting aid to me, I'd assume
the US wanted me to die.

[Tyler_JC]

I don't think anyone here is qualified to discuss the security situation in Haiti right now. We can only speculate.

For all we know, the place could be overrun with armed thugs shooting at anything that moves.

If that's the case, it makes perfect sense that the military would want to send in a large security force to make sure that any aid sent to the country is actually being delivered to the needy, safely.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', 'A')nd after burning down the Haitian infrastructure to obtain their freedom (and how would slaves
get the wherewithall to fight against Napolean Armies?), were
then given onerous loan terms (sound familiar?) in order to
be recognized.

[AlexdeLarge]

Political correctness wins again. Have you noticed that the media and politicians are mute when it comes to stopping Haitians from being transported to the States? (You are racist if you don't want thousands of Haitians being relocated to your neighborhood.) Think of the increase in crime. The cost of educating these Haitians who willl be sitting next to your kid in school next fall. All of it being paid for by you...............

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')RLANDO, Fla. -- The American Red Cross says a plan to bring 45,000 evacuees from Haiti to Florida, and 4,000 of those to Orange County, is not set in stone. The Red Cross clarified Friday who could be involved in a plan to move people out of Haiti.he Red Cross is preparing for two things: the repatriation of Americans living in Haiti and the possibility of a mass migration of Haitian nationals.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', '
')Haiti Evacuees Stream Into Central Fla.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/22270681/detail.html

Are you awake yet??????????????????? Call your friends in Florida and let them know whos coming to dinner!!!

[rangerone314]

I don't get scheudenfreude from what's happening in Haiti, but given what I see coming down the pike in the future (here and everywhere), I think we need to employ lifeboat economics.

We can send them some aid, especially since it is not THAT expensive compared to all the waste that we have here. But I can't see any logic in boosting our population when it is already over 300 million.

Anyone ever look at a satellite picture of Haiti and Dominican Republic, and see how you can tell where the border is? (Dominican Republic is the area that has green on its side of the border)

[AlexdeLarge]

If they are US citizens, no problem.

If they are not citizens........Hell no!

[mcgowanjm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'I') don't get scheudenfreude from what's happening in Haiti, but given what I see coming down the pike in the future (here and everywhere), I think we need to employ lifeboat economics.

We can send them some aid, especially since it is not THAT expensive compared to all the waste that we have here. But I can't see any logic in boosting our population when it is already over 300 million.

Anyone ever look at a satellite picture of Haiti and Dominican Republic, and see how you can tell where the border is? (Dominican Republic is the area that has green on its side of the border)

[rangerone314]

Replanting deforested areas must have slipped their minds.

Dominican Republic is also Catholic, is it not?

[mcgowanjm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'R')eplanting deforested areas must have slipped their minds. Dominican Republic is also Catholic, is it not?

[mcgowanjm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', 'A')nd after burning down the Haitian infrastructure to obtain their freedom (and how would slaves
get the wherewithall to fight against Napolean Armies?), were
then given onerous loan terms (sound familiar?) in order to
be recognized.