[americandream]

The urban gangs in South Africa aren't even remotely close to the rural tribals in character. Tribalism is very much a contrasting system to capitalism. An alternative in fact. Gangs in contrast strike me as being a function of capitalisms failures. A testimony to its hierarchical nature. A scavenger feeding off its excess.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'I')nner city gangs are run more like corporations than tribes as they operate for profit to make money by selling drugs and prostitution. The gang leaders and kingpins keep most of the crime money and live a high consumerist lifestyle. If gangs were run as a tribe there would be no kingpins and the gang money would be spread around to better the lives of all the gang members but it doesn't work that way. When society collapses the gangs will collapse as well.

[Homesteader]

Lions have prides, elk have herds, humans have tribes, a gift from 3 million years of evolution. Civilization and the sociopaths (elites) that run it are a brief, 10,000 year, experiment that we are witnessing the end of. There is life beyond civilization.

No one likes a dictatorial boss, maybe it is genetic? We know what is best for us if we but listen.

[americandream]

Just be careful its not Murdoch's Fox that is whispering to you.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', 'L')ions have prides, elk have herds, humans have tribes, a gift from 3 million years of evolution. Civilization and the sociopaths (elites) that run it are a brief, 10,000 year, experiment that we are witnessing the end of. There is life beyond civilization.

No one likes a dictatorial boss, maybe it is genetic? We know what is best for us if we but listen.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'T')he urban gangs in South Africa aren't even remotely close to the rural tribals in character. Tribalism is very much a contrasting system to capitalism. An alternative in fact. Gangs in contrast strike me as being a function of capitalisms failures. A testimony to its hierarchical nature. A scavenger feeding off its excess.

[americandream]

This was an objective statement, not one endorsing tribalism. If like me, you adhere to a notion of dialectic materialism, you would have gleaned from my comments on here over the years, that I do not see us ever regressing to earlier forms of social organisation. Alternative forms yes, but ones that arise out of the context of surrounding material imperatives, not a return to some golden age of innocence, which by the way has never existed.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'T')he urban gangs in South Africa aren't even remotely close to the rural tribals in character. Tribalism is very much a contrasting system to capitalism. An alternative in fact. Gangs in contrast strike me as being a function of capitalisms failures. A testimony to its hierarchical nature. A scavenger feeding off its excess.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'T')his was an objective statement, not one endorsing tribalism. If like me, you adhere to a notion of dialectic materialism, you would have gleaned from my comments on here over the years, that I do not see us ever regressing to earlier forms of social organisation. Alternative forms yes, but ones that arise out of the context of surrounding material imperatives, not a return to some golden age of innocence, which by the way has never existed.

[americandream]

Presumably you mean the Easter Islands. What is there to learn? Any society dominated by superstition or some other unreason such as perpetual growth will finally find its resolution in harsh material outcomes. That isn't exactly rocket science. Moving beyond the illogical is the challenge however.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'T')his was an objective statement, not one endorsing tribalism. If like me, you adhere to a notion of dialectic materialism, you would have gleaned from my comments on here over the years, that I do not see us ever regressing to earlier forms of social organisation. Alternative forms yes, but ones that arise out of the context of surrounding material imperatives, not a return to some golden age of innocence, which by the way has never existed.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'T')his was an objective statement, not one endorsing tribalism.

[eastbay]

Dialectical materialism is an industrial age concept dependent upon an ever expanding and ever-complex science-based industrial civilization. In the coming post oil age world, it'll become a long forgotten concept.

But it's interesting to read about and discuss.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', ' ')I certainly have never considered a lifestyle where reaching thirty was the rare exception to be 'golden' in any way, shape or form.

[americandream]

Dialectic materialism is simply the recognition that the future arises out of contemporary materiality, nothing more. In other words, that human society is fully circumscribed by prevailing material conditions.

Capitalism has its roots in the fuedal era, the fuedal era in the tribal era that preceded it, etc, etc. Consequently a post capitalist society will have its roots in the here and now notwithstanding that it may have one or other form.

We will not have the luxury of being able to elect the form that arises despite any preference for some golden era from ages gone by. The form that arises however may well be a descent into barbarism or evolution into post capitalism. Time will tell.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'D')ialectical materialism is an industrial age concept dependent upon an ever expanding and ever-complex science-based industrial civilization. In the coming post oil age world, it'll become a long forgotten concept.

But it's interesting to read about and discuss.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')
Capitalism has its roots in the fuedal era, the fuedal era in the tribal era that preceded it,

[americandream]

Dialecticism is the objective transformation of a social system over time from its beginnings to its transformation. Each epoch in other words flows through its various stages, finally reaching its antithesis in its material contradictions. This is as true for a small tribal community as it is for a social system with an inherent capacity to globalise. These are objective forces that ebb and flow. We, as we stand within its dynamic, can barely perceive its contours except to the extent that they serve our present needs.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')
Capitalism has its roots in the fuedal era, the fuedal era in the tribal era that preceded it,

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'D')ialecticism is the objective transformation of a social system over time from its beginnings to its transformation. Each epoch in other words flows through its various stages, finally reaching its antithesis in its material contradictions

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'D')ialecticism is the objective transformation of a social system over time from its beginnings to its transformation. Each epoch in other words flows through its various stages, finally reaching its antithesis in its material contradictions. This is as true for a small tribal community as it is for a social system with an inherent capacity to globalise. These are objective forces that ebb and flow. We, as we stand within its dynamic, can barely perceive its contours except to the extent that they serve our present needs.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') WoW!! thats the worst case of polysyllabic diarrhea I've read in years.

[americandream]

Ummm. Think less about what we shall endeavour to do, by virtue of choice or nostalgia, in the count down to capitalism's twilight, and what we are being compelled to do, in the here and now.

Capitalism's engine for manufacturing/accumulation is increasingly a socialised command control economy, China. Private losses are increasingly the subject of socialisation despite protestations from free marketeers, libertarians and all the rest, all over the world. Dubai is probably the most recent example going by the rumours. Our various leaders find themselves compelled to institute measure necessary to preserve the status quo, measures increasingly involving tools that until now, were seen as anathema in the operation of an unfettered market. At some point, the bigger picture will click (IMHO).

As Lincoln once said:

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') WoW!! thats the worst case of polysyllabic diarrhea I've read in years.

[eastbay]

As a life long communist I've never been able to make proper heads or tails of the term, 'dialectical materialism'. I've tried hard too, searching patiently through my dozens of volumes of The Collected Works of Karl Marx (printed in Moscow, 1978, hard cover, anyone interested? I own the complete set), but just when I believed I was getting close to understanding this 'concept' I found I had work to do. I decided long ago to leave the intellectual struggles to the book worms and focus on the class struggle instead.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'U')mmm. Think less about what we shall endeavour to do, by virtue of choice or nostalgia, in the count down to capitalism's twilight, and what we are being compelled to do, in the here and now.

[mcgowanjm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'U')mmm. Think less about what we shall endeavour to do, by virtue of choice or nostalgia, in the count down to capitalism's twilight, and what we are being compelled to do, in the here and now.

Capitalism's engine for manufacturing/accumulation is increasingly a socialised command control economy, China. Private losses are increasingly the subject of socialisation despite protestations from free marketeers, libertarians and all the rest, all over the world. Dubai is probably the most recent example going by the rumours. Our various leaders find themselves compelled to institute measure necessary to preserve the status quo, measures increasingly involving tools that until now, were seen as anathema in the operation of an unfettered market. At some point, the bigger picture will click (IMHO).

As Lincoln once said:

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
') WoW!! thats the worst case of polysyllabic diarrhea I've read in years.