[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'A')nother rumor bites the dust.

>>> Gulf Officials Deny Plan to Replace Dollar <<<

[emersonbiggins]

What countries say and what they do have been divergent for quite some time now. Even though it has been "officially denied," their actions (and past comments, as The Post indicates) say otherwise.

In other words, the writing is on the wall, but will we read it?

[americandream]

Personally I have seen nothing to date that convinces me that governments have really come to grips with the eventual lack of the primary material necessary to sustain expanding capitalism let alone let alone run it in its present form.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'W')hat countries say and what they do have been divergent for quite some time now. Even though it has been "officially denied," their actions (and past comments, as The Post indicates) say otherwise.

In other words, the writing is on the wall, but will we read it?

[gollum]

I've read a lot here, and many other places about how China "needs" the American consumer. In a resource constrained world no one "needs" a country that consumes, while paying back green printed money and "services". The Arabs, Chinese, and Russians obviously see that there is no way we will ever pay back what we owe and are attempting to cut their losses and move on to a world where we are not as much of a player.
Personally I'm long on tangible goods I need, Guns and ammo, and some silver. Other than my long standing and locked up retirement account and a few thousand in savings I don't save or buy stocks. I'm a doomer for sure but sometimes doomers expect disaster in a week or a month when we (barring war with Iran) are probably looking at a slide lasting from a couple of years to a decade. Doomers often underestimate the power if inertia and denial along with how much vested interest TPTB have in keeping the system alive.

[SeaGypsy]

A.Dream is posting very current to the market. He has enlightened me somewhat and he is not a vested interest American but a Kiwi.

The long runstory is what so many of us here strive for but we can have no idea until we understand the present and immediate future; what comes next.

His points are so pertinent it's almost scary.

Many posters respond to what he is saying by attempting to jump back from our various foregone conclusions, and don't quite make it. If you drop the fixation of a vision of how the long term pans out; A.D has the goods on now and the horizon. More than any other poster here.

[Roy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ersonally I have seen nothing to date that convinces me that governments have really come to grips with the eventual lack of the primary material necessary to sustain expanding capitalism let alone let alone run it in its present form.

[americandream]

Its not a case of China needing America so much as the elites at the helm of both China and America pooling their various talents and resources. The Americans are leading as they have a head start and Chinese communist party cadres are relative newcomers. The arrangement is not dissimilar to the one the US nouvea riche enjoy with the older European nobility.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ersonally I have seen nothing to date that convinces me that governments have really come to grips with the eventual lack of the primary material necessary to sustain expanding capitalism let alone let alone run it in its present form.

[Plantagenet]

At a recent Town Hall meeting the crowd was chanting at the Congressman: "STOP PRINTING MONEY! STOP PRINTING MONEY!"

People may not understand fully that the US is printing more money then the world has ever seen before mainly to go into debt to buy things from China, but they sense that something fundamental is very wrong in the economy (and they mostly don't even know about peak oil yet).

[TheAntiDoomer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'A')t a recent Town Hall meeting the crowd was chanting at the Congressman: "STOP PRINTING MONEY! STOP PRINTING MONEY!"

People may not understand fully that the US is printing more money then the world has ever seen before mainly to go into debt to buy things from China, but they sense that something fundamental is very wrong in the economy (and they mostly don't even know about peak oil yet).

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', '.')....Starbucks....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zj_NGJZyVU

[threadbear]

A.Dream, Sea Gypsy, You both make excellent points, AD, you are viewing the political landscape as a steadily simplifying and expanding global entity ruling the world through transnational corporations. National boundaries, in that case aren't as much of an issue. While you describe very well, the forces that have shaped our world for decades, I'm trying to describe an elite system that is changing, reverting back to more regional lines, in the interest of political expediency and economic/social stability.

The idea that a tiny monolithic elite rules the world WAS a very useful working hypothesis in the past. But now the elite themselves are splitting into factions that hew more towards tribe, region, state, country. They don't have a choice. The globalization phenomenon, though pretty thorough, was still dominated by America, through it's culture, ideologies, and it's currency. That is definitely changing. I don't think it's too useful to extrapolate too much from the past, in this regard.. Those who think we are all under control by forces that are more or less stable, into the future, will continue to hoard American dollars, seeing any loss of value against other currencies and resources as temporary and remedied by ongoing globalization. I see this as a mistake. Got gold?

[gollum]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'A').Dream, Sea Gypsy, You both make excellent points, AD, you are viewing the political landscape as a steadily simplifying and expanding global entity ruling the world through transnational corporations. National boundaries, in that case aren't as much of an issue. While you describe very well, the forces that have shaped our world for decades, I'm trying to describe an elite system that is changing, reverting back to more regional lines, in the interest of political expediency and economic/social stability.

The idea that a tiny monolithic elite rules the world WAS a very useful working hypothesis in the past. But now the elite themselves are splitting into factions that hew more towards tribe, region, state, country. They don't have a choice. The globalization phenomenon, though pretty thorough, was still dominated by America, through it's culture, ideologies, and it's currency. That is definitely changing. I don't think it's too useful to extrapolate too much from the past, in this regard.. Those who think we are all under control by forces that are more or less stable, into the future, will continue to hoard American dollars, seeing any loss of value against other currencies and resources as temporary and remedied by ongoing globalization. I see this as a mistake. Got gold?

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '
')

The elite may be splintering, but they'll do as they always have and make life miserable for the masses if it allows them to live better and consolidate power. I've come to the conclusion that most (not all) people who work for leadership positions from hospital director to president are of thwe worst power craving and controling sort.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')'ve come to the conclusion that most (not all) people who work for leadership positions from hospital director to president are of thwe worst power craving and controlling sort.

[americandream]

tb

I agree that globalisation of capital is not a foregone affair and that my analysis may well be premature but the unfolding global picture convinces me otherwise.

Most compelling of all is that America (in particular) continues to acquiesce (note I use the neutral term acquiesce) in the face of loss of sovereignty (the empowerment of G20 and Obama's speech to the UN are 2 very recent examples) in stark contrast to previous decades when its hegemony was regional and more aggressively insular. In fact, the G20 development, along with developments in Japan has convinced me that the rule book of engagement is being drastically rewritten to reflect the new scope of capital.

The next step in this process wil be the emergence of regulatory mechanisms leading us to the expansion of American financial instruments into the non-anglosphere countries, the consolidation of global banking into transnational entities, forums for commodity and mitigation mechanism exchange to spread benchmarking globally and finally the emergence of transparency mechanisms such as fully internationalised accounting rules, to restore and amplify investor trust in non-traditional markets. Somewhere in this long march to fully sovereign markets will intrude commodity collapse, collapse so evident that the global order, socially (not economically), will undergo progressive civil limitations.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'A').Dream, Sea Gypsy, You both make excellent points, AD, you are viewing the political landscape as a steadily simplifying and expanding global entity ruling the world through transnational corporations. National boundaries, in that case aren't as much of an issue. While you describe very well, the forces that have shaped our world for decades, I'm trying to describe an elite system that is changing, reverting back to more regional lines, in the interest of political expediency and economic/social stability.

The idea that a tiny monolithic elite rules the world WAS a very useful working hypothesis in the past. But now the elite themselves are splitting into factions that hew more towards tribe, region, state, country. They don't have a choice. The globalization phenomenon, though pretty thorough, was still dominated by America, through it's culture, ideologies, and it's currency. That is definitely changing. I don't think it's too useful to extrapolate too much from the past, in this regard.. Those who think we are all under control by forces that are more or less stable, into the future, will continue to hoard American dollars, seeing any loss of value against other currencies and resources as temporary and remedied by ongoing globalization. I see this as a mistake. Got gold?

[kublikhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'A')nother rumor bites the dust.
>>> Gulf Officials Deny Plan to Replace Dollar <<<

[americandream]

I'm sure there are a good few of the elite in the Arab world who would like to stick the US one but they're caught between a rock and a hard place. Having their cake and eating it too.

[threadbear]

Doesn't it seem that whenever China threatens to dump the dollar, the US/Israel threatens to bomb Iran? If the oil states make a synchronized move to do so at the same time, I pity Iran.

[americandream]

This is mere posturing for the masses. Nothing will come of it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'D')oesn't it seem that whenever China threatens to dump the dollar, the US/Israel threatens to bomb Iran? If the oil states make a synchronized move to do so at the same time, I pity Iran.

[PeakKYJelly]

Leaders are natural sociopaths