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Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby Prince » Mon 18 May 2009, 16:15:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AAA', 'I')nflation only erodes your purchasing power. My goal is to be as self-sufficient as possible. Therefore if the price of milk doubles it doesn't affect me because I use goat milk. If the price of gas triples it affects me only slightly because I won't be commuting to work, grocery store, or anywhere. If the price of clothes goes up double it doesn't affect me because I don't buy clothes that often and when I do they are low priced clothes.


After posting on this forum for a while, you should know damn well the domino effect that inflation and energy prices has on other things, be it directly or indirectly. So you drink goat milk and that will curb your inflation? What about the food for the goats? What about your farm equipment, fertilizer, energy costs, etc? You say that you buy low-priced clothes and items... but that doesn't mean that they are immune from inflation. Just because you buy an $8 shirt at Wal-Mart today doesn't mean it will be $8 in 10 years. You will still suffer from inflation bug in some way or another.
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby AAA » Mon 18 May 2009, 16:27:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Prince', '
')What about the food for the goats?


We have 300 acres for the goat to graze on and our property borders more than 10,000 acres of national forest.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Prince', '
')What about your farm equipment, fertilizer, energy costs, etc?


The goats, cattle, chickens, and compost will provide the fertilizer. The farm equipment will consist of a few hand tools, horse, and good ole' fashion sweat & muscle.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Prince', '
')You say that you buy low-priced clothes and items... but that doesn't mean that they are immune from inflation. Just because you buy an $8 shirt at Wal-Mart today doesn't mean it will be $8 in 10 years.


I have been wearing some of my t-shirts for the last 10 years. You can usually buy 10 t-shirts for $5 at our local goodwill.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Prince', '
') You will still suffer from inflation bug in some way or another.


You don't have to suffer if you aren't dependent on the modern world. Besides I think $1,600/month is more than plenty.

No food bills.
No income tax.
No utility bills.
No trash bills.
No cell phone bills.
No tv cable billls.
No mortgage.
No gym membership bills.
etc....

The most expensive thing wil be health insurance and when healthcare breaks down you don't even need that.
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby AAA » Mon 18 May 2009, 18:36:11

Prince,

What is your current financial plan to prepare for a post-peak world?

If you have a better one than mine, I might switch.

AAA
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby odegaard » Mon 18 May 2009, 19:02:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sameu', 'i')f you could do it in silence, it would be great
no no no!
what AAA needs to do is make his announcements in real time so we can all check back at a future date to see how accurate he is.
That's what the -> Stock Markets Current News III (Take Two) section of this website is for.

AAA otoh likes to talk in past tense about what he did and we're all suppose to just take his word for it.
AAA reminds me of Brainy Smurf :roll:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainy_Smurf
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby AAA » Mon 18 May 2009, 19:22:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sameu', 'i')f you could do it in silence, it would be great
no no no!
what AAA needs to do is make his announcements in real time so we can all check back at a future date to see how accurate he is.
That's what the -> Stock Markets Current News III (Take Two) section of this website is for.

AAA otoh likes to talk in past tense about what he did and we're all suppose to just take his word for it.


Hahaha...maybe you have missed my prior posts but I am moving money out of stocks my friend. Why would anyone be placing new money in the markets after a 35% rally in a few short months? It usually takes years and years to get that return on the S&P 500 The only stocks I have bought in the last few weeks are shares of the S&P 500 index fund and the International Fund in my 401k. Not too exciting. The same amount every two weeks in the same funds.

Its really funny you think I am making up my stock purchases and sales. If that is the case then I probably don't own 300 acres in NM, nor do I work in the oil industry, nor do I actually exist.

Maybe I am a computer program designed to screw with you guys.

Tell me odegaard,

What is your financial plan to prepare for a post-peak world?

AAA
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby AAA » Mon 18 May 2009, 19:49:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I')s it possible AAA is telling the truth, and is a wildly successful 26-year old, and everybody else is jealous?

Nah. :shock:


You guys are just screwing with the young guy. I don't mind. Its all fun in the sun.

Besides, I never claimed to be wildly successful. All I did was invest when the markets were down and took advantage of an oversold market. Made a couple months worth of salary and started taking some off the top. Its not rocket science.

Like I said before you could throw a dart at the WSJ and probably have returned 20% on your money.
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby AAA » Mon 18 May 2009, 19:51:49

So again I ask...

Prince & odegaard,

What is your financial plan to prepare for a post-peak world? Or do you have one.

AAA
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby Prince » Mon 18 May 2009, 19:55:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AAA', 'S')o again I ask...

Prince & odegaard,

What is your financial plan to prepare for a post-peak world? Or do you have one.

AAA


Other than the fact that you're a narcissist and crave attention, why do you care? (Don't give me the bullshit that you're looking for our advice or information...)
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby AAA » Mon 18 May 2009, 19:57:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Prince', '
')
Other than the fact that you're a narcissist and crave attention, why do you care? (Don't give me the bullshit that you're looking for our advice or information...)


I figure you don't have one and are pissed off that some 26 yr old kid has one that is actually working.
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby odegaard » Mon 18 May 2009, 20:03:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AAA', 'H')ahaha...maybe you have missed my prior posts but I am moving money out of stocks my friend. Why would anyone be placing new money in the markets after a 35% rally in a few short months?
Please don't try to straw-man my argument by *trying* to suggest I was making such a recommendation.
or else I'll have to put you on my "This person is an asshole list"
If you want to act like an asshole then I'll have to treat you like an asshole.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AAA', 'M')aybe I am a computer program designed to screw with you guys.

Tell me odegaard,

What is your financial plan to prepare for a post-peak world?

AAA
step 1: NOT take financial advice from someone on the internet who replies, "Maybe I am a computer program designed to screw with you guys."

step 2: Like I mentioned before in the Stock Markets Current News thread I am currently holding a short position for the Dow. My timing was not great but I'm convinced this will be a profitable trade.

step 3: I believe the primary trend for the stock market is down and commodities is up. That is my plan for 2009.
I'll make adjustments to this strategy next year if necessary. I have no "post-peak" plan because I do not expect everything to blow up by next year.

While I have no "long term" plan per say I consider myself much more prepared than J6P because I'm willing to accept possible future scenarios (of which 90% of society rejects as being impossible) and of course adapt to them if they should arise.
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby drew » Mon 18 May 2009, 21:18:45

AAA, I play the markets too. It is a very risky thing to do, and not everyone is cut out for it. I am very grateful to this site and PO in general because I have been very heavily cash for several years now, in part because I though oil prices would tank the economy. I knew the housing bubble was a problem but didn't know when it would implode, just like I didn't know when (if) oil would be the catalyst. I have been successful only 50% of the time in my selling (things continued upwards)

Just for the record, here's my returns (lucky, lucky, lucky, I was-especially the 1st year)

'05 90%
'06 8%
'07 .5%
'08 1.5%
'09 15% so far....

I've been 50%+ cash for 2 years now.

I read the whole thread, I don't know exactly why you hit a few nerves, but you did.

I suspect jealousy, but perhaps a bit of hubris on your part too....

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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby AAA » Tue 19 May 2009, 10:24:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '
')step 1: NOT take financial advice from someone on the internet who replies, "Maybe I am a computer program designed to screw with you guys."


I agree with that 100%.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '
')step 2: Like I mentioned before in the Stock Markets Current News thread I am currently holding a short position for the Dow. My timing was not great but I'm convinced this will be a profitable trade.


When did you enter that position and how bad is your negative return? Is a single short position your only investment? I have a saying: When the average joe begins to short the market, that is the time to buy into the market.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '
')step 3: I believe the primary trend for the stock market is down and commodities is up. That is my plan for 2009. I'll make adjustments to this strategy next year if necessary.


I somewhat agree. I think oil goes up but natural gas might stay in the doldrums for a couple of years. Then prices will rise slightly and LNG will come into the US full-force and permanently cap the price of natural gas because of cheap supply from overseas.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '
')I have no "post-peak" plan because I do not expect everything to blow up by next year.


Then what is your reason for the markets going down further? If peak oil was not a near-term estimate for me then I would be putting money into the markets right now anticipating future growth.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '
')While I have no "long term" plan per say...

I think everyone who has knowledge of peak oil should have a very detailed long term plan. Of course, plans change due to certain circumstances but having a plan with attainable goals is vital.
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby shady28 » Tue 19 May 2009, 10:27:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('drew', 'A')AA, I play the markets too. It is a very risky thing to do, and not everyone is cut out for it. I am very grateful to this site and PO in general because I have been very heavily cash for several years now, in part because I though oil prices would tank the economy. I knew the housing bubble was a problem but didn't know when it would implode, just like I didn't know when (if) oil would be the catalyst. I have been successful only 50% of the time in my selling (things continued upwards)

Just for the record, here's my returns (lucky, lucky, lucky, I was-especially the 1st year)

'05 90%
'06 8%
'07 .5%
'08 1.5%
'09 15% so far....

I've been 50%+ cash for 2 years now.

I read the whole thread, I don't know exactly why you hit a few nerves, but you did.

I suspect jealousy, but perhaps a bit of hubris on your part too....

Drew



Most likely the reason for 'hitting nerves' is that what he (and you) are spewing is likely lies, even if it isn't you should realize that you are merely getting VERY lucky.

To explain, this market is currently sitting about 25% below where it was in January of 2004 (S&P 500).

This also happens to be about the same level it was at in April of 1997, on both S&P 500 and DJIA.

Basically, the 'average' stock market investor has made Zip, Zero, Nada, Nothing, in 12 years. So, if you've managed to make a lot of money in the market in the past 3 or 4 months, gratz to ya. The averages say that you are likely to lose it in short order. Chumps come and make a bunch of noise for a short time, then fade away, every day of the week. Just like in a Casino, which is what the stock market is.

Meanwhile, other investments from oi to gold and yes, even real estate, have gone up significantly in the past 12 years. For that matter, someone accumulating treasuries over that time is doing quite well now.

So, enjoy your day in the sun, because it is likely going to fade away quickly and all you'll be left with is anger and the search for a scapegoat.
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby AAA » Tue 19 May 2009, 10:44:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shady28', '
')Most likely the reason for 'hitting nerves' is that what he (and you) are spewing is likely lies, even if it isn't you should realize that you are merely getting VERY lucky.


You obviously don't invest in the stock market and don't know what you are talking about. Luck does have a roll but it is VERY minor.

Ask me how many analyst meetings I have sat through, annual reports I have read, or news articles talking about those companies or industries. I have no idea how many hours I spend but it is a lot.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shady28', '
')To explain, this market is currently sitting about 25% below where it was in January of 2004 (S&P 500).

This also happens to be about the same level it was at in April of 1997, on both S&P 500 and DJIA.

Basically, the 'average' stock market investor has made Zip, Zero, Nada, Nothing, in 12 years. So, if you've managed to make a lot of money in the market in the past 3 or 4 months, gratz to ya. The averages say that you are likely to lose it in short order. Chumps come and make a bunch of noise for a short time, then fade away, every day of the week. Just like in a Casino, which is what the stock market is.


If you are so smart then you realize the S&P 500 went up 101% between March 1997 to August 2000.

S&P 500 also went up 91% between Sept 2002 and October 2007.

Right now the S&P 500 is up 37% since February 2009

Obviously nobody can time the market perfectly but if you have a 90% return on the S&P 500 TWICE in a decade and don't take some profits then you are an idiot. Dollar cost averaging actually works...who would have thought?

Many people have been investing more than 10 years and gave up 150% or 200% returns. They are just greedy!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shady28', '
')
So, enjoy your day in the sun, because it is likely going to fade away quickly and all you'll be left with is anger and the search for a scapegoat.


Again you must not know how to invest. When you have good returns you sell some of your positions and take the cash.
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby gnm » Tue 19 May 2009, 10:47:48

Takes money to make money as they say... If you are indeed 26 (right out of college?) then its unlikely that you clawed your way up through the corporate world and made enough money to buy 300 acres plus preps plus living expenses, college etc and still have enough to play the markets. So you either started out as a trust fund baby or have had a lot of family help. Enjoy the rally while it lasts. Got lots of good stuff? Can me and the banditos put your doomstead on the phase one raid list? :evil:

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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby AAA » Tue 19 May 2009, 11:03:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'T')akes money to make money as they say... If you are indeed 26 (right out of college?) then its unlikely that you clawed your way up through the corporate world and made enough money to buy 300 acres plus preps plus living expenses, college etc and still have enough to play the markets. So you either started out as a trust fund baby or have had a lot of family help. Enjoy the rally while it lasts. Got lots of good stuff? Can me and the banditos put your doomstead on the phase one raid list? :evil:

-G


Definitely NOT a trust fund baby but I did have some perks like my parents paying for college.

Quick overview of AAA's life.

-Great great grandfather homesteads 160 acres in New Mexico in late 1800s and ranches
-I worked during highschool and invested 100% of those earnings in the markets.
-I sold all my stocks and bought my first house in Oklahoma when I was a sophmore in college.
-Parents paid for college so thankfully no student debt. I realize not everyone was as lucky.
-Worked during college and invested 95% or more of those earnings in the marekts & paid off the house
-Graduated and sold the house for a good profit and invested in stocks and bonds.
-Work full-time in oil industry and save over half of my salary through living frugally
-Bought 140 acres that borders our original 160 and split the cost with my brother and parents
-Then sold majority of my investments and bought my house in Los Angeles in 2007
-House will be paid off in January 2009
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby Voice_du_More » Tue 19 May 2009, 11:15:56

It seems we are caught in a nice little bubble again. The larger forces are waiting in the wings to massively inflate or deflate the dollar but we are walking a tight rope right now through some crafty manipulation in my opinion. It cannot last because here is what is waiting. If we recover, inflation spurred on by higher energy prices will limit the growth. We will not be able to make up for the losses of the last couple years with a strident 5-6% growth for five years because oil would jump well over it's now record high. Other nations like China however are still in the game so demand from them will probably remain strong. They do not have anywhere near the oil hangover that America has which we have to try to slosh through by drinking more and more cheap oil, yet. On the other hand, if consumers keep going into the paradox of thrift we could see large percentages of companies going bankrupt and large numbers of service jobs associated with retail lost. China is vulnerable to this as we saw, millions of jobs were lost in China during the downturn in the US. Nobody really wants hyperinflation in the dollar, but strong deflation is much worse because it does not mean more buying power for American consumers, it means that for some but a pink slip for millions of others.
Since the American economy is mostly low paying service jobs that would be a blow that we could never recover from. Those who had jobs would make out well for a while but the cancer would force civil unrest beyond anything we could imagine. And that is I think the ultimate end of either of the two pathways. The have nots eventually get tired of having not.

I do wish I could see some other way, a gentle fluffy powerdown if possible, but I only see here a lull, a half hour of silence before the second act. Oil wants to fly above sixy and flirt with seventy, and gas wants to flirt with $2.50. Only more tightening by US consumers will stave this off and we are more sensitive in the wake of last years price spike to the issue so I expect any rally to be very short -lived as the psychology that we are in a depression will be reinforced by these factors.

There may be a run up throughout the summer as oil pushes into the $70-$90 range, but we may be surprised at just how depressed everyone is.

Those are the factors as I see it. Pray that China does not find a way to move quickly against the dollar since our plight is a double edged sword for them. A shrinking US economy means shrinking demand for exported Chinese goods, while a growing US economy means higher oil prices for the world and in the end reduced demand for exported chinese goods. If they decide to feel the pain and dramatically insulate themselves from the dollar we will be the one's asking Beijing to build cars here and import them to china. (sorry I had to put a vague reference to the impending GM bankruptcy for my brothers in the UAW)

Hang on folks, hang on tight!
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby AAA » Tue 19 May 2009, 11:30:13

So....

shady28 & prince,

What is your financial plan to prepare for a post-peak world?


We saw that odegaard is getting squeezed while shorting the DOW but admits he has no real plan.

I don't mind people attacking my plan but they should have a plan of their own to back it up.
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Re: Enjoy The Rally While It Lasts

Unread postby odegaard » Tue 19 May 2009, 11:46:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AAA', '.')..
I don't mind people attacking my plan but they should have a plan of their own to back it up.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('page 3 - AAA', '.')..
I have been wearing some of my t-shirts for the last 10 years.
My plan is to buy T-shirts more often than once every 10 years. :mrgreen:
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