by smallpoxgirl » Sun 03 May 2009, 15:49:07
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I') wonder when Christianity mutated into such a profoundly cruel religion?
Probably the wrong question to ask. Most of the really screwed up, blood thisty, "kill your son to prove you love me" stuff in the Bible is in the old testament. Christianity is sort of Judaism 2.0: More on the love, less on the mass murder, add in Paul's neurotic sexual dysfunction and viola.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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smallpoxgirl
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by jasonraymondson » Sun 03 May 2009, 16:23:37
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('POAlex', 'H')e came to save, not destroy.
Alex
I agree with you. But his followers don't follow that point. I grew up going to Baptist and independent protestant churches in Houston in the 1980s. They are quite vengeful folk.
i like your christ i do not like your christians. they are so unlike your christ. — gandhi
by Ludi » Sun 03 May 2009, 17:17:58
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', ' ')Ancient China had Strong wiccan history as well.
Well, not really. Wicca was invented around the end of the 19th, beginning of the 20th century.
Last edited by Ludi on Sun 03 May 2009, 17:23:31, edited 1 time in total.
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by StormBringer » Sun 03 May 2009, 17:24:42
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'I')'m surprised the Christian cross has not been raised here yet.
Actually the Christian cross was invented by the Vatican?
The Romans didn't hang ppl on the cross, They hung them on sticks/ poles. Check yer Bible........
Yeah they did some of that.
Crucifixion used a cross bar. Mounted across the top, not part way down, or that's what my memory is telling me anyway. It's been a couple decades since I've studied the topic in depth.
There is nothing in the Bible about the cross.
by Dawn » Sun 03 May 2009, 17:59:22
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('green_achers', 'I') think the point about the cross is that it is a symbol of a religion based on the teachings of a man who was tortured to death. Slightly ironic to this ~ twice a week goer.
No, it's about Astrology. The ending of the age of Pisces into the age of Aquarius. The symbolic death of a zodiac sign (age). The precession of the equinoxes.
You all have made my point for me.
If torture is wrong, what is the difference here. Either we don't torture, or we do torture. Trust me I would kill the son of a bitch as well, but if we torture him to get what we want... sure it works. But, isn't torture still wrong no matter who we do this to?
Torture is about inflicting pain and suffering in order to get a desired outcome, whether it is to make them break... or to just make them suffer for the wrongs they have transgressed against us. It amounts to an eye for an eye regardless of whether you get your desired outcome or not.
So how can we justify it based off a christian sensibility? Would Jesus have tortured the rapist? Would he condone the actions you would take to save your child? So where would this leave us in a christian sense? According to the bible for Christianity and the commandments he left behind, this is damnation.. as it would be a capital sin.
Christians by the majority support torture which is a major sin... and a lot of them do it without hesitation.
Where does this put them, and where does it put the rest who don't... and who wouldn't torture to save their child?
"Either we torture or we don't torture". The best policy, in that case is the "no we don't torture". If you know for certain you can torture info out of the guy who has your kid hidden somewhere, society will be 100% behind whatever you do, regardless of the law. No court would convict.
Let's turn it around, the cops are convinced that YOU'VE got a kid stashed somewhere. They pick you up and are about to put the thumbscrews to you and waterboard you., until they are reminded by their superiors there are laws against torture. Under the "we torture" rules, you would have lost your thumbs. Now what law would you prefer? Turns out your innocent.
Say the cops have irrefutable evidence that someone has a child hidden somewhere, do you think the law will stop them from extracting info, one way or the other, regardless of how it reads? Doubt it. It's not reducible to fundamentals. Perception rules and guides reaction, by authorities.
by Dawn » Sun 03 May 2009, 19:45:59
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('POAlex', 'W')hen it comes to Christians supporting torture, lets go straight to the Lord Himself....
He came to save, not destroy.
Christianity is all about torture. The whole subtext of Christianity is to scare people into converting by threatening them with eternal torture in hell.
That's valid for just about every religion. You don't need to blame just one of them.
by Dawn » Sun 03 May 2009, 19:58:24
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dawn', '
')
That's valid for just about every religion. You don't need to blame just one of them.
Many religions don't have a "hell" in the sense of a place of eternal torment.
So I don't think it's fair to say "just about every religion."
For instance, there's no permanent "hell" in (most of) Judaism. It's more like purgatory.
Catlicks have purgatory for unbaptized babies. Or, should I say that's what
I've been told?
by Dawn » Sun 03 May 2009, 20:12:47
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dawn', '
')Catlicks have purgatory for unbaptized babies. Or, should I say that's what I've been told?
"Catlicks"?
And it was
limbo for unbaptized babies, and limbo is not part of the official doctrine or dogma of the Catholic Church.
Got any more "interesting" religious opinions?
Most Catholics that I know believe in purgatory, or limbo if you like that word better. I say Catlicks because most of the forums that participate in are not allowed to talk about religion ever... Old habits...
You consider that interesting?
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Dawn on Sun 03 May 2009, 20:16:17, edited 1 time in total.
by Plantagenet » Sun 03 May 2009, 20:16:00
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dawn', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('POAlex', 'W')hen it comes to Christians supporting torture, lets go straight to the Lord Himself....
He came to save, not destroy.
Christianity is all about torture. The whole subtext of Christianity is to scare people into converting by threatening them with eternal torture in hell.
That's valid for just about every religion. You don't need to blame just one of them.
You are right.
I initially wrote "Christianity and other religons with hells" but deleted the "other religions with hells" part because the discussion here had so far been only about Christianity.
Its one of the reasons C.S. Lewis gave for becoming a Christian. He noted that it wasn't unpleasant to be a Christian, and if you were wrong you were dead anyway, but if you were an atheist and wrong then you'd be tortured for all eternity, so why risk it?
![[smilie=angel8.gif]](https://udev.peakoil.com/forums/images/smilies/angel8.gif "angel8")
by Plantagenet » Sun 03 May 2009, 20:44:51
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', ' ')He noted that it wasn't unpleasant to be a Christian, and if you were wrong you were dead anyway, but if you were an atheist and wrong then you'd be tortured for all eternity, so why risk it?
He seemed to leave out a few thousand other choices there.
But if you choose to be Christian to avoid hell, how do you fake god into thinking you really believe, and you're not just faking it to avoid hell? I guess my question is, how do you
make yourself believe in something you find unbelievable? Ot doesn't it matter if you really believe if you're faking it well enough?
Billions of people who believe in religion are making themselves believe in things that are unbelievable.
Lets not start worrying about discrepancies between professed belief and inner doubts when, for the most part, all the various gods seem to be quite satisfied with professed beliefs. There is no reason for people to be more fastidious about such things then the gods are.
