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THE Pirate Thread (merged)

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 10:07:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'A') dead pirate is a good pirate.


:? The Flying Spaghetti Monster will smite you for your blasphemy!
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 10:43:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'A')ll this will do is turn the Gulf of Aden into a bloodbath.

My condolences to the families of the next American crew these guys get their hands on.

These people will not kill anyone again, cos of them being dead.


Because these 3 were the only pirates in the entire Gulf, amirite?

All this has done is endangered the lives of every American crew in the region. It was just business before. Now it's personal.

They might as well be sailing under a bullseye flag now.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby Starvid » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 11:37:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'A')ll this will do is turn the Gulf of Aden into a bloodbath.

My condolences to the families of the next American crew these guys get their hands on.

These people will not kill anyone again, cos of them being dead.


Because these 3 were the only pirates in the entire Gulf, amirite?

All this has done is endangered the lives of every American crew in the region. It was just business before. Now it's personal.

They might as well be sailing under a bullseye flag now.

The pirates are entrepeneurs, not an army or political movement. They will do nothing to support any common pirate cause as long as it doesn't make them money, beyond spouting hot air.
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby Blacksmith » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 11:48:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'A')ll this will do is turn the Gulf of Aden into a bloodbath.

My condolences to the families of the next American crew these guys get their hands on.

These people will not kill anyone again, cos of them being dead.


Because these 3 were the only pirates in the entire Gulf, amirite?

All this has done is endangered the lives of every American crew in the region. It was just business before. Now it's personal.

They might as well be sailing under a bullseye flag now.


Might I suggest a few Q-ships.
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 11:58:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'A')ll this will do is turn the Gulf of Aden into a bloodbath.

My condolences to the families of the next American crew these guys get their hands on.

These people will not kill anyone again, cos of them being dead.


Because these 3 were the only pirates in the entire Gulf, amirite?

All this has done is endangered the lives of every American crew in the region. It was just business before. Now it's personal.

They might as well be sailing under a bullseye flag now.

The pirates are entrepeneurs, not an army or political movement. They will do nothing to support any common pirate cause as long as it doesn't make them money, beyond spouting hot air.


Wrong.

Pirate1: "Hey um...this ship is American."
Pirate2: "So?"
Pirate1: "So if we take hostages, they will just shoot us."
Pirate2: "So we don't take hostages. Kill everyone on board."

They don't need to act in common cause. All that is required is a common awareness of the risks.

And before you say "Maybe they will think twice before taking an American ship", remember what you said: They are entrepeneurs. Life on the horn is cheap. What's the loss of a couple of teenagers hopped up on khat, when measured against a multi-million dollar ransom?
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 12:06:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'M')ight I suggest a few Q-ships.


It's the right idea, but it's really a bandaid solution.

The root cause of the problem is the lack of any real government in Puntland. Until that issue is resolved, no amount of intervention at sea will solve the problem.

What will eventually happen is the international community will be forced to recognize one of the warlords and give them "aid". This gives them something to lose.
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby eastbay » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 12:09:23

Good idea. Q ships. The modern pirates would figure it out fairly quick, plus, liberal international pressure and civil rights advocates wouldn't allow us to do what a healthy society would do anyhow. So we must learn to live with them.


Anyhow, a friend of mine and I were talking about that last night, in fact. In WW I the Germans had success with the Muse and Wolf, each of which was disguised as a merchant ship and took out dozens of allies ships.

If anyone's interested in these raider ships there is an excellent book, The Cruise of the Raider, Wolf' written in the 30's by a British officer who spent several months onboard the Wolf. It's a 'must read' for anyone interested in naval history.
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby Starvid » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 15:00:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'W')rong.

Pirate1: "Hey um...this ship is American."
Pirate2: "So?"
Pirate1: "So if we take hostages, they will just shoot us."
Pirate2: "So we don't take hostages. Kill everyone on board."

They don't need to act in common cause. All that is required is a common awareness of the risks.

And before you say "Maybe they will think twice before taking an American ship", remember what you said: They are entrepeneurs. Life on the horn is cheap. What's the loss of a couple of teenagers hopped up on khat, when measured against a multi-million dollar ransom?

I'd rather say that if they know that an attack on a US vessel will result in their own deaths no matter what, they will not consider that a good cost-benefit relation. As my old economics textbook always said: people respond to incentives.

Sure, some American crews might perish before they get the point, but that's international relations for you.

We're not getting away from the fact that the sea lines of communications need to be open, and if the Somalis can't police their own waters somebody else will do it for them.

If piracy keeps picking up someone like the Chinese will eventually decide that all Somali vessels are suspect and will sink them first and don't ask any questions at all later. Then there will be no Somali pirates or any Somali fishermen (usually the same people anyway) until the Somalis get their shit together and stop piracy themselves.
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby Starvid » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 15:04:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'M')ight I suggest a few Q-ships.


It's the right idea, but it's really a bandaid solution.

The root cause of the problem is the lack of any real government in Puntland. Until that issue is resolved, no amount of intervention at sea will solve the problem.

True, but we can't come from the outside and recreate the Somali state. They'll have to do that for themselves. Give them another 20 years and they might do it. Or not.

Still, no matter what happens in Somalia the innocent passage of ships in international waters is paramount and must be protected. And make no mistake - it will be protected, no matter how much violence is needed. If not by us, then by the Chinese.
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 15:10:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'W')e're not getting away from the fact that the sea lines of communications need to be open, and if the Somalis can't police their own waters somebody else will do it for them.


I don't know about you, but to me it sounds like the Somalis are policing their own waters.

Remember: Most of these pirates started out as fishermen. They took up arms to defend their waters from predatory fishing by foriegners after the Somali government collapsed. Predatory fishing is way down now. You may not approve of their methods, but you can't argue the results.

Now, they are taxing everything that moves within striking distance of Puntland. Maybe they are being a little more agressive than most other coast guards and navies, but they are performing similar functions, and to tremendous effect for the locals. The economy in and around Eyl for example, is stronger now than it has been in decades.

You keep saying they need to "start policing themselves", but who exactly do you think is going to be doing the policing? That's right, the exact same people who are doing it now.
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 16:15:10

How many miles out are they allowed to "tax" transport?

Image

Take a look at the scale at the bottom left. 200 miles?

Maybe Cuba should "tax" transit into the Gulf of Mexico? Or we should "tax" shipments to Cuba?

Image

Remember those hijacked freighters are going somewhere else and are coming within 200,300, 400 miles of the Somali coast on their way to where ever they are going.

Maybe I should tax those trucks who come with 20 miles of my house on the interstate? Urban areas (where most of those goods are bound) have been treating rural areas as colonies for centuries now so it must be valid right?
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Thu 16 Apr 2009, 19:21:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'H')ow many miles out are they allowed to "tax" transport?


As many miles out as they think they can get away with.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'M')aybe I should tax those trucks who come with 20 miles of my house on the interstate?


Maybe you should.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'U')rban areas (where most of those goods are bound) have been treating rural areas as colonies for centuries now so it must be valid right?


Why even bother with such rationalizations? If you want something, take it. Leave the moral ambiguities to the slaves.
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby Cabrone » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 06:45:31

Whilst Somalia remains a failed state this will run on and on, only the stakes will get higher.

If I was a seaman having to pass through that area I'd be a lot more concerned for my safety now.

The long term solution has to be to get some kind of functioning government in that lawless country and then you can pressure them to deal with the root causes.

Just like Afghanistan it did actually have a government around 30-40 years ago so it's not an impossible goal, though it would take a lot of effort to bring back some semblance of stability now.
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Pirate bay 4 get jail sentence

Unread postby Quinny » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 14:09:04

Just in case you were thinking of downloading anything. Site is still up at the moment. link
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Reason: Merged with THE Pirate Thread.
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Re: Pirate bay 4 get jail sentence

Unread postby bencole » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 14:35:12

Trying to stop the spread of file sharing on the internet is analogous to trying to plug a leaking and cracked dam with your finger.
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby 3aidlillahi » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 20:05:45

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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 17 Apr 2009, 23:42:19

You people should all be thankful. This uptick in piracy is the only thing keeping global warming in check right now. link
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby Kristen » Thu 23 Apr 2009, 20:56:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'I')t grosses me out how happy everyone is over death. ooh we're the good guys that stopped the evil pirates hurrah! hurrah! Perhaps the existence of the pirates stems from our inability to share with the rest of the world.

A dead pirate is a good pirate.


The reason piracy exists is because Europe was showing up and dumping their nuclear waste in their waters. They were also fishing there and taking all of their livestock. So perhaps its time to pay up!
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby jboogy » Thu 23 Apr 2009, 23:38:20

The world consumes what is on the ships
The ships consume diesel to move
Diesel is utilized by the captain to move the ship
The captain is used by the pirates
The pirates are used by the seal snipers
The pirates brains are used to nourish the deck of the yellow boat

The circle of life is complete.
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Re: Pirates killed, Ship Captain Rescue - Obama made the call

Unread postby bodigami » Fri 24 Apr 2009, 23:48:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'T')here's another side to the story posted on LATOC. 8O


do we have to guess? what's the side story?
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