Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

2005 peak is history, 2008 sets new record (EIA)

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: 2005 peak is history, 2008 sets new record (EIA)

Unread postby Pops » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 14:52:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RobertRapier', '.')..If the meteor is going to strike next year, my preparations will be different than if it strikes in 10 years. I need to know how bad it is going to be, and just what I can do, and when I need to do it.

Thanks for what you do RR.

Though I'm expert at nothing and whatever opinions I post are just opinions, what you touch on is probably the biggest obstacle for people considering how to prepare.


The indecision between believing in certain doom or certain salvation prevent most from doing anything in either direction. Whatever evidence can be presented in either direction can do nothing but help those striving to form an opinion.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: 2005 peak is history, 2008 sets new record (EIA)

Unread postby rangerone314 » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 14:57:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pedalling_faster', 'i')t's a complete waste of prep time to debate the timing of the peak.

but it's interesting to talk about :lol:

when production backs off, does it give the oil-version-of-aquifers time to seep some more oil to the well-heads - in a way that allows an actual increase in production from a well that's been "resting" ?


Actually more important question would be once we have hit that magic year when oil is ACTUALLY peaked, be it 2005, 2008, 2010 or 2015, how long do we really have before things start to break down?

For instance, if oil peaked in 2008 and will never go higher, what is the BEST EDUCATED GUESS to the earliest I could expect serious economic & societal breakdown to where I'd best have my peak oil preparations FINISHED???
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
User avatar
rangerone314
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4105
Joined: Wed 03 Dec 2008, 04:00:00
Location: Maryland

Re: 2005 peak is history, 2008 sets new record (EIA)

Unread postby copious.abundance » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 15:22:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'I') see The Oil Drum has finally picked up on this topic. And I just love their predictable oil-will-decline-from-here-on-outwards charts. :razz:
Where have you been? This is all the oildrum talks about.

No, I meant the "oil production reached a new high in 2008" topic. Read their front page.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'A')nd yes. Those oil-will-decline-from-here-on-charts are a necessary, if unpleasant, addendum :razz:

Except when they're wrong.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'e')dit: better yet. Why not give a shot at making an intelligent counter argument? Something like, "deep within the earth, under great pressure from the giant Volcano-Man, a secret cauldron of Methane Gas and Black-Light recombine to form endless supplies of free gasoline."??

Obviously you aren't capable of an intelligent counter argument, so it shouldn't surprise me you'd say something like this.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
User avatar
copious.abundance
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9589
Joined: Wed 26 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Cornucopia
Top

Re: 2005 peak is history, 2008 sets new record (EIA)

Unread postby alokin » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 19:19:20

This topic is important. But I am really disappointed the way it is discussed. You are only hacking on one another and reading the topic
does not lead anywhere.
User avatar
alokin
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1255
Joined: Fri 24 Aug 2007, 03:00:00

Re: 2005 peak is history, 2008 sets new record (EIA)

Unread postby Pops » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 20:45:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('alokin', 'T')his topic is important. But I am really disappointed the way it is discussed. You are only hacking on one another and reading the topic does not lead anywhere.

Such is the nature of PO discussion I've found al. and I think what RR was getting at about in the whole "Beliefs" vs. "Evidence" bit.

I'd say, just as in everything else, it is up to the open minded reader to take away what seems reasonable and ultimately actionable - otherwise why read any opposing view?
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac
Top

Re: 2005 peak is history, 2008 sets new record (EIA)

Unread postby efarmer » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 11:17:34

The arguments can be convincingly made in many directions because it is
a very complex system and the critical data is being kept secret as state
secrets, corporate secrets, and because a big chunk really is unknown
and this is make the unknown part a big secret for those who might
know or who say they do know and charge big money to expound in
client's ears about it.

So I always go back to basics. It is a huge system with tremendous inertia
from it's massiveness and even though the markets porpoise up and down
on rumors and hunches and schemes the underlying system is slower
than the speculating markets that get so much of the attention.

By the late 1990's it was obvious that monumental imbalances in the
financial system were manifest and that they had to reconcile via an
orderly "soft landing" or a gruesome and chaotic crash event(s).
Ten years later we have the real manifestation in our laps.

The markets attempt to anticipate what is really going on combined
with the flywheel inertia of reality are going to make a baffling undulating
plateau that lasts for what I purely guess will be 7 to 10 years from the
oil price shock episode of 2008.

Myself, I was really kind of hoping that the rest of the world would realize
that I really deserved to be a star like, aristocratic, investor who needed
their petroleum, cheap labor, and life savings, in order to demonstrate what
living in style and with panache really meant. Why have they lost faith in
me just when stuff was getting good?

Once you ride a bubble for a few years the suspension on your old
oxcart is really hard to get used to again.
User avatar
efarmer
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2003
Joined: Fri 17 Mar 2006, 04:00:00

Re: 2005 peak is history, 2008 sets new record (EIA)

Unread postby alokin » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 19:44:12

I agree with the different opinions, but some discussions are like chicken in a pen pecking each other.
User avatar
alokin
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1255
Joined: Fri 24 Aug 2007, 03:00:00

Re: 2005 peak is history, 2008 sets new record (EIA)

Unread postby Revi » Thu 19 Mar 2009, 21:00:46

I was watching the BBC and they said that the global economy will contract this year by something like 2-3 percent. Is that roughly equal to the amount of oil we are going to be down?

They said that they thought that the economy would right itself and start growing again next year.

The great thing about peak oil is that we know it ain't gonna happen.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7417
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: 2005 peak is history, 2008 sets new record (EIA)

Unread postby TonyPrep » Sat 21 Mar 2009, 06:49:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'H')at tip to JD for the find:
http://i-r-squared.blogspot.com/2009/03 ... falls.html
Estimates will be revised for some time to come and may throw a spanner into the works of RR's call for a 2008 record. 2005 may yet be resurrected. Or not.
User avatar
TonyPrep
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2842
Joined: Sun 25 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Waiuku, New Zealand
Top

Re: 2005 peak is history, 2008 sets new record (EIA)

Unread postby TonyPrep » Sat 21 Mar 2009, 06:56:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RobertRapier', 'W')ell, we aren't debating the best salsa recipe. I consider this a critically important subject.
What? The timing and size of the peak? That is not really important, except that it will possibly signal the, ultimately, downward spiral of societies. Even if it doesn't, the acceptance of a peak in oil production is, hopefully, an acceptance that resources are limited. If one accepts that, why is the peak important? Well, the only plausible reason I can think of is in relation to trying to build sustainable societies. A useful resource like oil could help re-engineer societies along sustainable lines.

So what is so important, and why?
User avatar
TonyPrep
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2842
Joined: Sun 25 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Waiuku, New Zealand
Top

Re: 2005 peak is history, 2008 sets new record (EIA)

Unread postby shortonsense » Sat 21 Mar 2009, 21:45:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RobertRapier', 'W')ell, we aren't debating the best salsa recipe. I consider this a critically important subject.
What? The timing and size of the peak? That is not really important, except that it will possibly signal the, ultimately, downward spiral of societies.


Ultimately?

Colin Campbell, 2002:

"Peak Oil is a turning point for mankind".

Do you think he actually meant ..."a few decades after it happens."?

Dr David Goodstein, "Out of Gas, End Of Oil":

Best Case: Worldwide disruptions that follow peak serve as a wakeup call
Worst Case:After peak, all efforts to produce, deliver and consume alternative fuels fast enough to fill the gap between declining supplies and rising demand fail.

Sounds like he needs a basic course in economics, huh? In either case, what would he call what we got? Super-DUPER best case?

It does seem interesting to come pre-Peak estimates of what was supposed to happen to post-Peak actual reality, heck the kids in my classroom have been pretty biased lately what with the TOD release and all.
User avatar
shortonsense
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 3124
Joined: Sat 30 Aug 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Previous

Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests

cron