[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zeke', 'w')hether we've peaked or not, isn't it resoundingly clear that continuing a way of life powered by oil is about the stupidest thing we could possibly do?

[Revi]

We are headed into a time where the average person won't have a car.

I think it could happen pretty quickly.

The insurance, gas and repairs will make it impossible for most people to afford a car soon.

That will be the least of our worries.

[zeke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'W')e are headed into a time where the average person won't have a car.
I think it could happen pretty quickly.
The insurance, gas and repairs will make it impossible for most people to afford a car soon.
That will be the least of our worries.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zeke', 'w')hether we've peaked or not, isn't it resoundingly clear that continuing a way of life powered by oil is about the stupidest thing we could possibly do?

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I')f Congress would tax energy in the US and raise gas prices to levels like those in Europe, Americans would suddenly drive small cars

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zeke', 'w')hether we've peaked or not, isn't it resoundingly clear that continuing a way of life powered by oil is about the stupidest thing we could possibly do?

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'T')oss in a reduction in superfluous trips are we're O.K. for a decade or so given Campbell's projected decline rate. This is of course ignoring EVs and the like that can effectively reduce oil consumption to next to nothing.

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'H')ey JD,

Here's an article for ya! I cant wait until our first rate auto industry starts building all those highly efficient /Electric powered vehicles.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home


"Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC may have to be forced into
bankruptcy by the U.S. government to assure repayment of $17.4 billion in federal bailout
loans, a course of action the automakers claim would destroy them. "

[JohnDenver]

Tony, just curious, but are you personally opposed to efficiency/conservation? If not, then why do you disagree with such bile when I suggest that efficiency/conservation is the best way forward?

[AirlinePilot]

JD,

Your living in a dream world. The US in particular is not going to go towards any real gains in transport efficiency because no one will be able to afford to. On top of that no one wants to. It will be driven by pain. Economic and social dislocation are the only ways you will get any real momentum behind large gains in efficiency.

I bought and regularly use a 150 CC scooter now for all my local transport needs. Its sometimes a small hassle to carry stuff etc, but right now I'm still getting laughed at. Personally I think its cool, but here in the south you aren't going to pry any of these trucks out of all these rednecks hands by a few dollar/gallon increase in gas. Its going to take a lot more than that. It's literally cultural.

The entire automobile manufacturing industry is in dire straights and they still cant figure it out. You wont change any pardigms during the next few years with mom and pop garage technology either.

I believe you are the one who needs to wake from the slumber of cornucopia.

[zeke]

yeah...

anyone who doubts that need only look at the Carter Administration... Carter said a lot of things which were reality-based, good, sound advice and recommendations.

throw away the credit cards
conserve energy
invest in alternative energy technology
lower the speed limit.

basically, he was villified and hung out to dry. Americans as a whole thought he was some crazy jerk, asking Americans to tighten up and stop acting like overindulged children.

and back in 1976, we were demonstrably a bit smarter and more well-grounded than we are now.

So, here we are, 33 years later, hurtling down exactly the kind of deep dark whole he warned us about, and people are STILL throwing temper tantrums about keeping their car-based consumer lifestyle.

This is NOT a population which will put on the grown-up pants and act responsibly.

this is a population which is on the floor, pounding its fists, kickin its heels, red faced with tears and snot and the whole drama bit at the mere suggestion that they "do without."


throw in the financial caper and the last 8 years of bushco, and there's plenty of excuse to be found in why the people can not change their own direction.

if this were a runaway merry go round, at least you'd be able to jump off and take your chances...instead, we're strapped down good n tight with the spoiledniks and fascists...it's their game, really..


zeke

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'T')ony, just curious, but are you personally opposed to efficiency/conservation? If not, then why do you disagree with such bile when I suggest that efficiency/conservation is the best way forward?

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'Y')es, along with our dream of infinite economic growth.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'K')eeping in mind that short term growth and screw ups aren't the same as infinite growth, and proposing they are is a Cornucopian fantasy, no one shares it AFAIK.

[zeke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'K')eeping in mind that short term growth and screw ups aren't the same as infinite growth, and proposing they are is a Cornucopian fantasy, no one shares it AFAIK.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'K')eeping in mind that short term growth and screw ups aren't the same as infinite growth, and proposing they are is a Cornucopian fantasy, no one shares it AFAIK.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'T')here is no default position about anything in general, much less limits to growth. Lack of a position regarding something is not evidence of a stance as a whole on that position either for or against, or anything in between.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'T')ony, just curious, but are you personally opposed to efficiency/conservation? If not, then why do you disagree with such bile when I suggest that efficiency/conservation is the best way forward?

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'T')here is no default position about anything in general, much less limits to growth. Lack of a position regarding something is not evidence of a stance as a whole on that position either for or against, or anything in between.