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THE Stimulus Package Thread (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: The Economic Stimulus Explained

Unread postby bodigami » Sat 31 Jan 2009, 16:54:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('idiom', 'N')o you are right. Obama will lead us into a world flowing with milk and honey and rainbows.


and unicorns?

:lol:
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The Stimulus Shopping List: $1.17 Trillion in Pork Goodies

Unread postby retrogressing » Sun 01 Feb 2009, 19:16:05

Having trouble putting down that cigarette? The stimulus bill has $75 million for programs to help people quit smoking. Only 42 percent of Americans now think the bill is a good idea, according to Rasmussen Reports, which had found 45 percent approval last week.

The $1.17 trillion More..stimulus bill passed by House Democrats on Wednesday bears little resemblance to the bill originally proposed by President Obama, with less than 5 percent of the funds now going to repair America’s deteriorating infrastructure.

GOP critics point out the bill is loaded with tens of billions for items ranging from Amtrak subsidies to sexually transmitted diseases to the National Endowment for the Arts — much of which won’t actually flow into the economy until long after economists expect the current economic crisis to subside.

In late November, Obama promised: “It will be a two-year, nationwide effort to jumpstart job creation in America, and lay the foundation for a strong and growing economy. We’ll put people back to work rebuilding our crumbling roads and bridges,” modernizing schools and stimulating development of alternative forms of energy.
http://retrogressing.com/02/the-stimulu ... k-goodies/
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Re: The Stimulus Shopping List: $1.17 Trillion in Pork Goodi

Unread postby phaster » Sun 01 Feb 2009, 19:41:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retrogressing', 'H')aving trouble putting down that cigarette? The stimulus bill has $75 million for programs to help people quit smoking. Only 42 percent of Americans now think the bill is a good idea, according to Rasmussen Reports, which had found 45 percent approval last week.

The $1.17 trillion More..stimulus bill passed by House Democrats on Wednesday bears little resemblance to the bill originally proposed by President Obama, with less than 5 percent of the funds now going to repair America’s deteriorating infrastructure.

GOP critics point out the bill is loaded with tens of billions for items ranging from Amtrak subsidies to sexually transmitted diseases to the National Endowment for the Arts — much of which won’t actually flow into the economy until long after economists expect the current economic crisis to subside.

In late November, Obama promised: “It will be a two-year, nationwide effort to jumpstart job creation in America, and lay the foundation for a strong and growing economy. We’ll put people back to work rebuilding our crumbling roads and bridges,” modernizing schools and stimulating development of alternative forms of energy.
http://retrogressing.com/02/the-stimulu ... k-goodies/


House Democrats just like the equally childlike counter parts the House Republicans, have political districts made up of core supporters who don't see or understand the other side.

Let's flip the arguement around and suppose it were a republican president and a majority republican congress, then don't you think a bill would have all kinds of tax cuts?

Let's be realistic here, and don't expect the right balance right away from the Obama administration.

Personally I have have "hope" (pardon the pun,) that the Obama Administration will have a much better grasp of management that the Bush administration, who IMHO had took management lessons from Joseph Stalin.

If you think that's not true then consider that Stalin had secret prisons, just like Bush. Also Stalin had purges just like President Bush who removed administrators, burcratics and judges were didn't tow the party line or basically weren't yes men. As to the international front dealing with public relations, Bush like stalin was a strong political leader who basically didn't give a damn what the general public thought of their policies.

It took years to get to the crisis point we are in today, and I'm sure it will take years to get out of the mess, so just sit back and enjoy the ride cause its going to be wild and getting upset or panicking is not going to dramatically change things.
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Re: The Stimulus Shopping List: $1.17 Trillion in Pork Goodi

Unread postby lawnchair » Sun 01 Feb 2009, 19:45:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retrogressing', 'm')uch of which won’t actually flow into the economy until long after economists expect the current economic crisis to subside


When is that going to be, again? Oh, yeah, the same economists who didn't see this coming.
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Re: The Stimulus Shopping List: $1.17 Trillion in Pork Goodi

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 01 Feb 2009, 20:50:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('phaster', 's')uppose it were a republican president and a majority republican congress, then don't you think a bill would have all kinds of tax cuts?


All kinds of tax cuts were added to the House bill, and the Republicans still didn't vote for it.

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Re: The Stimulus Shopping List: $1.17 Trillion in Pork Goodi

Unread postby nobodypanic » Sun 01 Feb 2009, 21:24:51

having people quit smoking would save millions in healthcare.

family planning? hell the most important thing we could do is get a hold of the birth rate and turn it around.

amtrack? yeah mass transportation is a bad idea. :roll:
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Re: The Stimulus Shopping List: $1.17 Trillion in Pork Goodi

Unread postby gnm » Tue 03 Feb 2009, 19:38:34

Hypocrites all of them - How many of them voted for Bush's massive bailouts sans oversight? So the Repugs robbed the taxpayers blind on the way out and now the dems are robbing us again before it all caves in... Just. Because. They. Can.

Real easy to vote against it now... Its win win for them since they know its going to fail - just like they knew Bush boy's bailouts would fail... And knowing that they'd be out of power they can just sit back and play the blame game...

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Re: The Stimulus Shopping List: $1.17 Trillion in Pork Goodi

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 03 Feb 2009, 20:26:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.


Hey, that's great - might mean more work for me!

Yay! Jobs stimulus! :-D
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Re: The Stimulus Shopping List: $1.17 Trillion in Pork Goodi

Unread postby Jotapay » Tue 03 Feb 2009, 20:40:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wall Street Journal', '[')img]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/01/15/business/economy/stimpackage.jpg[/img]


LOL, this was made with SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services. Hello sweet heart!
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Re: The Stimulus Shopping List: $1.17 Trillion in Pork Goodi

Unread postby dinopello » Tue 03 Feb 2009, 21:25:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retrogressing', 'T')he $1.17 trillion More..stimulus bill passed by House Democrats on Wednesday bears little resemblance to the bill originally proposed by President Obama, with less than 5 percent of the funds now going to repair America’s deteriorating infrastructure.


Sad but true. That smoking cessation research is exactly the wrong thing to do if population control was a priority. But, some district somewhere has a laboratory chock full of medical researchers that do smoking cessation research and that funds them to keep their jobs for another few years. Would be better spent on light and heavy rail, support for local food production and markets, energy and sanitation infrastructure and energy efficiency. That is what our district is spending it on mostly. There are a few bridge repair projects too.

The big transportation money and priorities will be set by the Transportation Reauthorization bill that will be debated this year and cover the next 5 years of funding.

This effort was set up to address that, and has a large list of partners. They were sidetracked a little to respond to this stimulus stuff but the real game is still the reauthorization bill.
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Re: The Stimulus Shopping List: $1.17 Trillion in Pork Goodi

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Tue 03 Feb 2009, 21:31:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Partisan mouthbreather', 'P')rovisions of the bill that many legislators are questioning:

$1 billion for Amtrak, which hasn’t earned a profit in four decades.


HURRR - we expect Amtrak to turn a profit, but road construction is an investment. Airlines get a pass too, despite Southwest being the only consistently profitable one in years.

For shame... I stopped reading after that.
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Re: The Economic Stimulus Explained

Unread postby timmatoil » Thu 05 Feb 2009, 16:22:27

Despite the global goodwill directed at President Obama, the American economic policies proved globally unpopular at the Davos summit in Switzerland, (according to a New York Times report). Russia and China took the opportunity to lambaste the U.S. for a culture of “excess,” while America’s European allies expressed grave fears regarding the prospect of future protectionism. Meanwhile, the rest of the world came together to wonder how the new U.S. administration could pay for its raft of stimulus packages. I've read the posts above and my question is what do you believe are the future ramifications of this stimulus?
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Re: The Economic Stimulus Explained

Unread postby JoeW » Thu 05 Feb 2009, 16:51:45

If the rest of the world doesn't like what we're doing then maybe it's good for us.
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Re: The Economic Stimulus Explained

Unread postby yeahbut » Thu 05 Feb 2009, 16:55:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JoeW', 'I')f the rest of the world doesn't like what we're doing then maybe it's good for us.


I doubt it, at least as far as protectionism is concerned. That seems to be widely accepted as one of the factors that worsened the effects of the last depression.
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List your stimulus package

Unread postby Pops » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 18:22:12

Don't crack wise.

Where do you think tax money/breaks should go for the greatest short/long term effect in light of PO.

If you want to concentrate on just one area all the better.

Lets not get too much into a taxes vs. spending debate, just state your case even if it's status quo..

Remember, this is a PO site so keep it relevant.

Carry on while I noodle mine...
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: List your stimulus package

Unread postby heroineworshipper » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 18:29:25

Everyone should have their own stimulus package. There should be hundreds of millions of individual stimulus packages based on each person's opinion. It would be done with computers. Instead of a few hundred politicians dividing the economic plan into a few hundred areas, you have a computer divide the economic plan into millions of areas.
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Re: List your stimulus package

Unread postby Revi » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 19:07:54

I think we should spend only on energy efficiency, conservation and renewable energy projects.

It's the only new energy coming into the system.

Therefore it's the only real stimulus to the economy.

All the other things are just printing paper or making mouseclicks.
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Re: List your stimulus package

Unread postby gnm » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 19:26:49

Silly me I think we should stop trying to spend our way out of debt. I'm all for alternative energy (I run it myself) but I don't think it should be subsidized. Nor do I think oil should be subsidized (that include geopolitical moves to ensure supply). If we didn't subsidize the trucking industry would we still have decent rail infrastructure? How about aircraft? Auto makers and road building? Stop paying the inefficient and the real solutions will rise to the top!

How about we conduct a massive sell off of government assets - liquidate and pay back the taxpayers who are owed via social security and other such ponzi schemes - then cancel the programs. How about we pull out of the 120 odd military adventures around the world. How about we stop subsidizing industrial coal, etc and require that they be held accountable for their pollution - thus driving up the price of said dirty energy production. How about we scale back and encourage conservation on an individual level while dismantling the federal beast and returning power to the states and localities. How about we eliminate the status of "incorporation" behind which so many can hide with more rights than a citizen and no liabilities.

We can start by taking back all the TARP money the bankers got (plus interest) and liquidating their assets.

Ahem... <steps off soap box>

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Re: List your stimulus package

Unread postby Pops » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 20:40:40

If you have nothing serious to contribute, go somewhere else.

Read the OP.
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