[bratticus]

Who is not buying Toyota cars?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]U.S. December Import Prices Fall for Fifth Month

... Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. said this month that December sales in the U.S. plummeted by more than a third...

[outcast]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ybrids should be cheered because they bring us one step closer to an electric transportation grid.

That's the end game of Peak Oil. It's not the end of the world, just this way particular kind of lifestyle.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')asically the electric-car movement is just another attempt to keep the party going.

[the_red_pill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chuckmak', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('the_red_pill', '
')Well said....I have a 2005 Civic I paid $14k for and I hyper-mile it to 48mpg average.....

[outcast]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow the cars are powered is fairly irrelevant, esp. since the damage will continue unabated. The GG can come from a smokestack or from a tailpipe---what's the difference? You're just fooling yourself if you think there is one.

[GoghGoner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', ' ')Cars make transportation easier and faster. That's it. Whether or not we choose to over consume is up to us.

[outcast]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat's it? How simple and clear. Too bad the world is more complex. Cars pollute and give children asthma.

[Revi]

I do think that traditional car culture is doomed. It costs about $6000 to keep a car going nowadays. A person making $20,000 uses almost a third of their income on their car.

Pretty soon those people will drop their cars.

They might be able to keep a NEV going for a thousand a year, however.

I was in a resort area and a lot of people get around on a scooter. They have tiny engines and can be parked anywhere.

If you have to get around in a car, I think a Prius is a good choice.

They were going for $22,000 last year.

That's not much more than a similar car.

[jdmartin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('the_red_pill', '
')Sure. Equipment:
05 Civic VP Coupe
4cyl engine
5 sp manual
No power options
A/C
Tires are at 45psi (max side wall pressure is 51psi)
EPA sticker: 32/38
Current mileage: 43500

I simply coast and drive very slowly, seldom over 65 mph, lots of engine-offs at stoplights. I cycle the a/c in the summer, not running it full blast. I push my car out of the garage and roll it in neutral 1/10 mile to first stop sign (it's all downhill). When I park, I try to park in places where I don't have to back out or I can roll backwards with gravity. Oil changes every 3k miles. Last 5 months of driving(7300 miles) I've averaged between 45 and 50 mpg. Best tank: 55mpg. Worst tank: 39 mpg.

I also have an 92 Accord, 4cyl, 5 spd, 196k that I hypermile to 36mpg average (24/30 EPA sticker)

I personally think hybrids are a joke. Look at the prices: 05 Civic VP: $14k, 05 Civic Hybrid : $20k(?) Big waste of money to pay more for same mileage!!

I get the same mileage or similar with some conservative driving, not extreme or unsafe methods some guys use. Although I guess one could argue I could probably get 70+mpg with my techniques on a hybrid, what about the batteries life time? Am I going to get to hit with a few $k after I put 100k on a hybrid to replace them? Wouldn't that just obliterate whatever savings I had with fuel economy had I just stuck with a traditional 4cyl gas manual? I'm satisfied with my mileage and figure I'm still way better off than the person (with questionable intelligence or concern for the future) driving a humongo SUV.

[the_red_pill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('the_red_pill', '
')Sure. Equipment:
05 Civic VP Coupe
4cyl engine
5 sp manual
No power options
A/C
Tires are at 45psi (max side wall pressure is 51psi)
EPA sticker: 32/38
Current mileage: 43500

I simply coast and drive very slowly, seldom over 65 mph, lots of engine-offs at stoplights. I cycle the a/c in the summer, not running it full blast. I push my car out of the garage and roll it in neutral 1/10 mile to first stop sign (it's all downhill). When I park, I try to park in places where I don't have to back out or I can roll backwards with gravity. Oil changes every 3k miles. Last 5 months of driving(7300 miles) I've averaged between 45 and 50 mpg. Best tank: 55mpg. Worst tank: 39 mpg.

I also have an 92 Accord, 4cyl, 5 spd, 196k that I hypermile to 36mpg average (24/30 EPA sticker)

I personally think hybrids are a joke. Look at the prices: 05 Civic VP: $14k, 05 Civic Hybrid : $20k(?) Big waste of money to pay more for same mileage!!

I get the same mileage or similar with some conservative driving, not extreme or unsafe methods some guys use. Although I guess one could argue I could probably get 70+mpg with my techniques on a hybrid, what about the batteries life time? Am I going to get to hit with a few $k after I put 100k on a hybrid to replace them? Wouldn't that just obliterate whatever savings I had with fuel economy had I just stuck with a traditional 4cyl gas manual? I'm satisfied with my mileage and figure I'm still way better off than the person (with questionable intelligence or concern for the future) driving a humongo SUV.

[3rensho]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Munqi', '
')
Could it be that the money that is saved from gasoline is not the only reason why people buy these things?

Try not to call people idiots so much. It makes you look bad when you're not making any sense yourself.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow the cars are powered is fairly irrelevant, esp. since the damage will continue unabated. The GG can come from a smokestack or from a tailpipe---what's the difference? You're just fooling yourself if you think there is one.

[outcast]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat makes you think we aren't an agrarian society? We are the ultimate agrarian society. We just run it differently from the ancient ones. On a massive, impersonal, grossly harmful scale.

[bratticus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Japan Machine Orders Fall by Record on Export Slump

By Jason Clenfield
Bloomberg
January 15, 2009

Japanese machinery orders fell by a record in November as businesses cut spending amid a deepening global recession that’s choked off demand for the country’s cars and electronics.

... skip ...

Recessions in the U.S. and Europe have stifled demand for Japan’s exports, prompting companies from Toyota Motor Corp. to Sony Corp. to curtail production and fire workers.

... skip ...

Toyota said last week it will close all of its domestic factories for 11 days. Japan’s biggest carmaker is expecting its first operating loss in seven decades for the year ending March.

... snip ...

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')So . . . I tend to think laterally. Something is terribly wrong, and replacing ICEs with batteries won't begin to fix it. It's just another misallocation.

[Heineken]

Outcast:

Our philosophic viewpoints are hopelessly incompatible. That's what I've learned here over the years. I could answer all your arguments, which are well put, but it just leads to another round of disagreement, and another.

I believe we have to change course radically, you believe we can stay on the same general course with certain tweaks and fixes to the machinery.

I would only add that we are an agrarian civilization (granted, "society" probably isn't the right word) that's run by machines and fossil fuels instead of people. We are a new kind of agrarian civilization. We've agriculturally coopted vastly more of the earth's surface far more harmfully than in the earlier eras. The agriculture is still there, bigger and badder than ever, minus the people.

[vision-master]

Outcast is a rigid person.

[outcast]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'O')utcast is a rigid person.

[Heineken]

I just tend to feel that refining or advancing the technology can't lead to the solutions we really need. Perhaps it can buy time, but only if teamed with a revolutionary new trend of downsizing and powering down.

When a solar farm opens in, say, California and I read excited headlines about "enough new green power for 15,000 homes," I say, yeah, and in a month or two there are 30,000 new houses built. And think of all the things those houses and their occupants consume other than power. So we're still going backwards.

[joe1347]

So much for Toyota keeping its plug-in hybrid plans secret.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Toyota to Sell Plug-In Hybrid in 2011

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/15/busin ... ta.html?hp

By HIROKO TABUCHI
Published: December 14, 2009

Toyota Motor said Monday that it planned a widespread release of its plug-in hybrid car in 2011