[wisconsin_cur]

The human mind is your friend... if you are among the normally fed,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ccording to subjects of the semistarvation experiment, tiredness was the worst effect of the low calorie intake, followed by appetite, muscle soreness, irritability, apathy, sensitivity to noise, and hunger pain.[5] Standard personality tests revealed that the starving individuals experienced a large rise in the "neurotic triad" -- hypochondriasis, depression, and hysteria. Also, the subjects of the experiment noticed a marked decrease in the drive for activity, and a remarkable decrease in sex drive.[5] In peer evaluations, other experiment subjects noted great changes in subjects' personalities during the period of semistarvation.;

[Ayoob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'T')he bottom line for me I guess in making my Good-Evil evaluation on your Doomstead and your Plans is on how you intend on using said Doomstead. If your plan is to use it to help as many people as you can and to make it a lifeboat for your community, I support this idea 100% even if you made your money through running a factory in Mexico where you paid 10 cents an hour to Mexican children. On the other hand, if your intention is to hole up in your bunker while everybody around you starves and you have 30 years worth of canned goods in your larder, then I hold great hope that the Zombies will overrun your farm and you will be Barbecued for dinner.

[JJ]

Ayoob, I don't want anyone to lose what they think they deserve. Then they will become dangerous. And I'm not disgruntled. I actually have a (for me) wonderful life. I realize you weren't addressing me. Oh, and I quite possibly could be mentally ill.

[patience]

Heckuva_Job,

Here's a photo diagram of harness:
Horse Harness Parts Diagram

A neck yoke is a stick about 4 ft. long that snaps onto the #32 breast strap, one end on each of 2 horses. It's purpose is to hitch to the end of a wagon tongue, for steering, and a point to apply force for backing up the wagon. A neck yoke is commonly used to keep a team of horses headed in generally the same direction when being used to simply drag a load, say logs, using only a chain.

Thanks for the kudos. My experience has been largely shaped, to quote a favorite author, by spending half my life trying to figure out how to do a $500 job for 5 bucks, and the other half trying to get the 5 bucks. Such experience looks to be coming into fashion soon. Maybe some of my old clothes will come back in style too?

I dunno where I might fit in RE's achetypes, if at all. I'm certainly not rich, and as to whether I'm good or evil in his view would depend on perspective. That is, either from the viewpoint of the needy which I would try to help if I could, or the thief, whom I would cheerfully beat to a bloody pulp, or other, as appropriate. I do expect people to pull their own weight, which may not be apropos in a discussion of whether we give to our fellow man, or not.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '
')And how are they all going to get here?

[StormBringer]

To be fair to R.E. his views are correct on the social outcome eventually. After a period of time everyone will be forced to work together in a group, depending on one another for the needs of all. But that will be an eventual thing. So it depends on your point of view on when to begin such a mindset. His choice is his own.

In as much as we all like to think we can do it all by ourselves reality is that we are social animals. We naturally cling together in times of trouble. Although I do disagree on when to begin such a mindset. I'm sorry but to just blindly take in any and all would be foolish. To take in a thug, endangering yourself and family, and those you have already taken in, is irresponsible.

The people who will migrate from area to area consuming everything and then moving on will be vast. Those type of people will have little consideration for your or any other life that gets in there way. After these groups have come and gone, which i dont think will be long, due to there self destructive nature, then and only then could you begin to look to outside your own for others to group with in a mutual support group type living.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StormBringer', 'I')n as much as we all like to think we can do it all by ourselves reality is that we are social animals.

[patience]

StormBringer,

It may depend on what sort of community we live in, whether to get communal sooner or later. Some places we have lived, I would agree with your outlook, mostly cities. The small towns, from pop. 250 to 6,000, however, I think it would be well to begin community efforts ahead of time. That requires being a functional part of that community, whatever your role. Those roles will change for many people as time goes on, but if a person is known to others on a personal or business/working sort of relationship, they become somewhat more trustworthy. That works even better if THEY know that YOU know their mother/sister/dad, whatever. When a town has become too big for peer pressure to be effective as a social force for good, then it is too big for me. In general, it is the socially alienated person who becomes a problem.

[Sixstrings]

StormBringer wrote:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')o be fair to R.E. his views are correct on the social outcome eventually. After a period of time everyone will be forced to work together in a group, depending on one another for the needs of all. But that will be an eventual thing. So it depends on your point of view on when to begin such a mindset. His choice is his own.

[StormBringer]

I agree location is very important and a determining factor on the viability of starting a support system now or later. In my case it is later although i live in a very small town. I also live in the deep bible belt and the mindset of God will save us is the overwhelming thinking.

Its just as bad as those who believe the gooberment will fix all.

My point was we can only judge weather to act now or later for ourselves and to judge R.E. is as bad as his judgment of others. Not knowing of all the variables in each unique situation.

Is it not enough of a self-examination to make such moral judgments for ourselves. To judge others for their personal battle of morality is just wrong. If there is one thing above all else wrong with this country is people making moral judgments for all. Where is the freedom in that. It is wrong to tell children they can not pray in school, just as much as it is to tell children that they have too. Yet we as a people often impose a since of morality on others. When will we the human race evolve to a point of RESPECT for all.

[sittinguy]

If, I traded goods to someone in need, they better have some skill of service I need, or something to trade. If not then SOL.

A perfect example is my neighbor, he is a Harris engineer. He has no mechanical skills. The other day I saw the plumbers at his house. He had a pin hole in a copper pipe. They cut the wall out, shut down water and soldered in a new piece. He brought the pipe out to show me the piece with the pin hole in it. And I asked why he didn't just use a repair clamp? He had no clue what I was talking about.

Do you think I should help this person just because he is my next door nieghbor-NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

These people have been sheltered and overpayed for so long they have no clue.

Other nieghbors are hunters and outdoor types like me, I would consider networking with them, but only if they had more than just guns

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sittinguy', 'D')o you think I should help this person just because he is my next door nieghbor-NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sittinguy', 'D')o you think I should help this person just because he is my next door nieghbor-NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

[sittinguy]

I'm not saying I would'nt help him change a tire or cut down a tree or something, but when TSHTF, and people like him wake up for thier "I'm an engineer, la la land" life. And say oh crap, I'm hungry. SORRY, git on down the road.

[JJ]

a lady came into produce yesterday, and we started talking about the "economy". She said her church group was very concerned and advocated starting to store food for uncertain times. She said she had an entire closet full of soup because it could be eaten cold, out of the can. I suggested that maybe she get some beans, etc. for a little variety...she said she didn't know how to cook beans....(I'm not making this up). I think that there are probably a lot of people like this.

[StormBringer]

You will find many people like that. Book smart as hek and dumb as a box of rocks at the same time. Not all but many.

[RedStateGreen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', 'a') lady came into produce yesterday, and we started talking about the "economy". She said her church group was very concerned and advocated starting to store food for uncertain times. She said she had an entire closet full of soup because it could be eaten cold, out of the can. I suggested that maybe she get some beans, etc. for a little variety...she said she didn't know how to cook beans....(I'm not making this up). I think that there are probably a lot of people like this.

[strider3700]

until I joined this board I had no idea how to cook beans. They had never been on the menu in my family and other then green beans we had never grown any. These days I still store far far more rice then beans simply because I'm way more familiar with rice. Same goes for wheat. It doesn't really grow here and I don't know anyone that uses raw berries.

[Pops]

Sorry to chime in late.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'O')ne thing it really does show is how egregiously skewed the board is in terms of the economic class of its members.

[davep]

One of the great things about almost any grain is that if you sprout it the carbohydrates are turned into vitamins and other goodies. It's a mini goodness-machine, and it's free.

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