PeakOil is You
Inequality (US Vs. Europe)
Re: US has larger trade deficit than all other nations combi
by Quinny » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 14:22:14
Only chase them once - chasing them twice only gives them the upper hand!
Live, Love, Learn, Leave Legacy.....oh and have a Laugh while you're doing it!
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Quinny - Intermediate Crude
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Re: US has larger trade deficit than all other nations combi
by cube » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 16:23:45
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '.')..
You are correct, insofar as the money is spent domestically. But a lot of wealth is perpetually tied up in stocks and commodities, contributing to asset bubbles that wreck us all when they burst. The lower classes actually spend most of their income, contributing to the economy. I submit that advanced financial instruments and asset bubbles aren't much contribution in the end.
Please do not tell me you believe wealth disparity *causes* boom and bust cycles.You are correct, insofar as the money is spent domestically. But a lot of wealth is perpetually tied up in stocks and commodities, contributing to asset bubbles that wreck us all when they burst. The lower classes actually spend most of their income, contributing to the economy. I submit that advanced financial instruments and asset bubbles aren't much contribution in the end.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '.')..
Also, I think it's safe to say the super rich consume a large amount of imported goods. French wine, versus Napa Valley. Italian or Norwegian furniture vs. domestic furniture. Spending on imports doesn't help our domestic economy so much.
If foreign nations do not make money then how do you expect them to purchase your exports?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '.')..
To a large extent, the rich and super rich also have what is in effect a micro economy exclusive to themselves. The high priced mansions, Manhattan apartments, antiques and such are purchased from other wealthy people.
So you are largely correct, if money is spent HERE then it does benefit working people.
BUT, the current income disparity remains an issue. The rise of the super rich has evidently created jobs, but of what quality? In 1992, department store type retail jobs paid $10 an hour in my area. The commission jobs actually paid around $15. In 2008, these same jobs are STILL paying around $10 an hour.
We're talking 16 years here, and no wage increases in these jobs. Even worse, the rise of Big Box stores has largely eliminated the retail commission jobs.
I believe this is a fundamental problem in our economy. We have what amounts to serfdom -- we don't have a working class anymore, we have the working poor.
Now, you may not give a flip about the working poor. But consider this. When you eat out a restaurant, would you rather have the cook who makes your food feel good about his work and paid a livable wage, or do you prefer him disgruntled? I can tell you, it's the disgruntled who do unfortunate things to your food.
And when the day comes for you to live in assisted living, do you really want a $10 per hour CNA caring for you? There was an article recently about CNA's abusing their elderly patients in a disgusting way. These are low class folks, to be sure. But when you pay low class wages, that's what you get -- low class service in return.
Perhaps it would benefit everyone if the working class had a reason to take pride in their work.
What began as a single question has now morphed into an octopus with 8 tentacles.
I'd rather stay on a single topic.
If we're going to talk about "income / wealth disparity" then lets keep it at that.
//
Now I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Wealth disparity does not bother me.
For example we have someone like George Soros who has $10Billion while Joe Sixpack probably only has $10,000 in savings.
Is there something wrong with this? ---> It does NOT bother me at all.
- cube
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Re: US has larger trade deficit than all other nations combi
by Byron100 » Sun 14 Dec 2008, 18:18:51
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '.')..
You are correct, insofar as the money is spent domestically. But a lot of wealth is perpetually tied up in stocks and commodities, contributing to asset bubbles that wreck us all when they burst. The lower classes actually spend most of their income, contributing to the economy. I submit that advanced financial instruments and asset bubbles aren't much contribution in the end.
Please do not tell me you believe wealth disparity *causes* boom and bust cycles.You are correct, insofar as the money is spent domestically. But a lot of wealth is perpetually tied up in stocks and commodities, contributing to asset bubbles that wreck us all when they burst. The lower classes actually spend most of their income, contributing to the economy. I submit that advanced financial instruments and asset bubbles aren't much contribution in the end.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '.')..
Also, I think it's safe to say the super rich consume a large amount of imported goods. French wine, versus Napa Valley. Italian or Norwegian furniture vs. domestic furniture. Spending on imports doesn't help our domestic economy so much.
If foreign nations do not make money then how do you expect them to purchase your exports?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '.')..
To a large extent, the rich and super rich also have what is in effect a micro economy exclusive to themselves. The high priced mansions, Manhattan apartments, antiques and such are purchased from other wealthy people.
So you are largely correct, if money is spent HERE then it does benefit working people.
BUT, the current income disparity remains an issue. The rise of the super rich has evidently created jobs, but of what quality? In 1992, department store type retail jobs paid $10 an hour in my area. The commission jobs actually paid around $15. In 2008, these same jobs are STILL paying around $10 an hour.
We're talking 16 years here, and no wage increases in these jobs. Even worse, the rise of Big Box stores has largely eliminated the retail commission jobs.
I believe this is a fundamental problem in our economy. We have what amounts to serfdom -- we don't have a working class anymore, we have the working poor.
Now, you may not give a flip about the working poor. But consider this. When you eat out a restaurant, would you rather have the cook who makes your food feel good about his work and paid a livable wage, or do you prefer him disgruntled? I can tell you, it's the disgruntled who do unfortunate things to your food.
And when the day comes for you to live in assisted living, do you really want a $10 per hour CNA caring for you? There was an article recently about CNA's abusing their elderly patients in a disgusting way. These are low class folks, to be sure. But when you pay low class wages, that's what you get -- low class service in return.
Perhaps it would benefit everyone if the working class had a reason to take pride in their work.
What began as a single question has now morphed into an octopus with 8 tentacles.
I'd rather stay on a single topic.
If we're going to talk about "income / wealth disparity" then lets keep it at that.
//
Now I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Wealth disparity does not bother me.
For example we have someone like George Soros who has $10Billion while Joe Sixpack probably only has $10,000 in savings.
Is there something wrong with this? ---> It does NOT bother me at all.
At least we know where you stand on this issue...LOL.
I tell you what, wealth inequity sure as heck bothers me. I, for one, just cannot give justification to having a class of the "working poor" while the rich sit up in their ivory towers figuring out new ways to defraud the American public in their endless quest for million$. This is just not the country I want to live in, and I know a LOT of people who feel this way.
Oh well, this just gives me one more reason to move up to Canada someday. At least they have their priorities straight.
I just want to live in a country that actually cares about its citizens instead of just throwing them under the bus for the sake of our "capitalist" system. Of course, there's always the hope for our version of 1917, in which case I'd wanna stay and join the fun. 
