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What we are facing soon

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby Quinny » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 09:35:07

I can't accept that there is no absolute good and evil. There are laws in nature that need to be taken into account.

Stephen Covey's concept of a moral compass is I believe a good analogy.

I understand the concept of relative good or evil, but to me it's a bit like dealing with SPAM emails. One mans SPAM is another mans HAM, but their are some emails that are and always will be SPAM.

So I take the point that killing might not always be bad, but I cannot think of a circumstance where killing for sadistic pleasure would be considered good.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 13:26:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', ' ')I cannot think of a circumstance where killing for sadistic pleasure would be considered good.


It is considered good by those who enjoy it, maybe. Or do you mean in some cosmic sense it would be considered "Good"?

But this is wandering off into a philosophical or religious discussion....
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby KevO » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 14:52:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'S')o I take the point that killing might not always be bad, but I cannot think of a circumstance where killing for sadistic pleasure would be considered good.

the killings at the WTC on 911 was seen as good by millions of people around the world.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby Quinny » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 16:58:53

But it was carried out by suicide bombers who believed they were fighting a holy war. total nutcases, but different than someone who kills for sadistic pleasure.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby Ferretlover » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 19:28:46

The past is the past. Back on topic, please.
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby Quinny » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 19:33:01

Whats that mean?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', 'T')he past is the past. Back on topic, please.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 19:46:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', 'y')ou missed my point. There is a difference between the concept of 'good' and the concept of 'evil' but it all depends on where you stand.

No I didn't miss your point, its precisely the point I have been arguing against in the last 6 posts at least. LOL. What you are pointing out is cultural relativism, which certainly exists but is not necessarily good or evil. YOU can't determine the difference because from this reference frame one looks the same as the next to you. Did you ever read "Flatland"? Its about a bunch of geometric shapes that live in a 2 dimensional planar world and they formulate a whole concept of reality based on what they can see. Its only when one of these shapes gets lifted off the plane and can see it from above that he sees the truth. As long as you can only see the world from 4 dimensions of space and time, it all seems relative to you and one culture's evil is another culture's good. When you see it from outside of this reality, it will appear quite different to you and you will be able to see the difference between Good and Evil.

See you on the Other Side.

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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby KevO » Thu 11 Dec 2008, 04:59:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'A')s long as you can only see the world from 4 dimensions of space and time, it all seems relative to you and one culture's evil is another culture's good. When you see it from outside of this reality, it will appear quite different to you and you will be able to see the difference between Good and Evil.
See you on the Other Side.

Of course but you're a couple of levels down from the top still.
You're 'see you on the other side' is proof that you're at about level 4/5 of the main 7 (though there are lots of sub levels obviously)
As you get higher you will see that we are all the cliche that is 'one' and things such as good and evil are just concepts, always were - thoughts if you will, passing show - which may have attachment in them and it may have aversion - just thoughts. You won't kick yourself by then becuase you'd be past kicking yourself to have got to that level but you may pass a mental smile.

Go higher still and you will see that there is actually nothing and there never was and its looking at itself not being there. It's here that you reaise that there is no other side and there never has been. There is and has always only ever been here and now.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby KevO » Thu 11 Dec 2008, 05:03:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'B')ut it was carried out by suicide bombers who believed they were fighting a holy war. total nutcases, but different than someone who kills for sadistic pleasure.

yes, but neither of us can truly know what each individual was truly thinking and feeling - their true motivation. They may have hated it and they may have absolutely loved it. We can only project.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Thu 11 Dec 2008, 05:22:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', 'O')f course but you're a couple of levels down from the top still. You're 'see you on the other side' is proof that you're at about level 4/5 of the main 7 (though there are lots of sub levels obviously)

What definition are you working with here of levels? Its clearly NOT the same defnition I am working with at all. By the defintion I am working with, your elevator got stopped at the Mezzanine and I am in the Penthouse :-)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ee you in the moment

Nice try, but it doesn't have quite the Ring to is that "See You on the Other Side" does, nor does it have the fabulous tune by Ozzie that I pulled it from. Ozzie Trumps Lennon in my book, hands down. Besides fabulous lyrics, he is a MUCH better guitar player ;-)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'V')oices, A Thousand, Thousand Voices
Whispering, The Time Has Passed For Choices
Golden Days Are Passing Over, Yeah

I Can't Seen To See You Baby
Although My Eyes Are Open Wide
But I Know I'll See You Once More

When I See You, I'll See You On The Other Side
Yes, I'll See You, I'll See You On The Other Side

Leaving, I Hate To See You Cry
Grieving, I Hate To Say Goodbye
Dust And Ash Forever, Yeah

Though I Know We Must Be Parted
As Sure As Stars Are In The Sky
I'm Gonna See You When It Comes To Glory

And I'll See You, I'll See You On The Other Side
Yes, I'll See You, I'll See You On The Other Side

Never Thought I'd Feel Like This
Strange To Be Alone, Yeah
But We'll Be Together
Carved In Stone, Carved In Stone, Carved In Stone

Hold Me, Hold Me Tight I'm Falling
Far Away, Distant Voices Calling
I'm So Cold, I Need You Darling, Yeah

I Was Down, But Now I'm Flying
Straight Across The Great Divide
I Know You're Crying, But I'll Stop You Crying

When I See You I See You On The Other Side
Yes, I'll See You, See You On The Other Side
I'm Gonna See You, See You On The Other Side
God Knows I'll See You, See You On The Other Side, Yeah

I'll See You, See You On The Other Side
I'm Gonna See You, See You On The Other Side
God Knows I'll See You, See You On The Other Side, Yeah
I Wanna See You, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, See You On The Other Side
God Knows I'll See You, See You On The Other Side

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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby mos6507 » Thu 11 Dec 2008, 11:12:13

Ozzy isn't a guitar player, but he's worked with some of the best.

Here is a Sabbath song (lyrics courtesy of Geezer Butler) that is more appropriate for doom (which is actually the name of early Sabbath's musical genre).

INTO THE VOID

Rocket engines burning fuel so fast
Up into the night sky they blast
Through the universe the engines whine
Could it be the end of man and time
Back on earth the flame of life burns low
Everywhere is misery and woe
Pollution kills the air, the land and sea
Man prepares to meet his destiny
Rocket engines burning fuel so fast
Up into the night sky so vast
Burning metal through the atmosphere
Earth remains in worry, hate and fear
With the hateful battles raging on
Rockets flying to the glowing sun
Through the empires of eternal void
Freedom from the final suicide

Freedom fighters sent out to the sun
Escape from brainwashed minds and pollution.
Leave the earth to all its sin and hate
Find another world where freedom waits.
Past the stars in fields of ancient void
Through the shields of darkness where they find
Love upon a land a world unknown
Where the sons of freedom make their home

Leave the earth to satan and his slaves
Leave them to their future in the grave
Make a home where love is there to stay
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