[twobyfouroftruth]

Wel, let me help
MOST ilnesses are caused by peoples bad lifestyle.

Soon there WIL BE NO PHYCISIANS that will want to see you, and the ones you will see wil be PA's who havnt' a clue (who take full price pay from medicare all 15 dolars out of 100 worth)

Everyone will be given amoxilcilin and cough medicine and told to go to the ER if not better.

Those who go to ER will be sent back to the clinic.

Look, You have to get back to simple basic food two meals a day at about 1000 calories a day. This will get you healthy. Boil your water and drink a liter a day, exercise and loose weight if you are heavy.

If you smoke, stop
if you drink stop
give up al junk food and caffien

and buy aspirin and motrin and tylenol

If you have bad genes, and you have multiple illnesses, you just aren't going to make it through this.
Sorry, get your house in order.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I') understand putting a barrier between consumers and Oxycontin. But who gives a damn about cholesterol medicine?

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', 'S')o for you physicians, how much would electronic filing help out, as it is one of Obama's ideas for reducing time with paperwork and so forth? Would it actually help out or is it much like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound?

[colliedog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I') understand putting a barrier between consumers and Oxycontin. But who gives a damn about cholesterol medicine?

[colliedog]

Did you hear about the trial lawyer who had a malignant astorcytoma of the brain (brain tumor) and not a neurosurgeon in Florida would operate on him?

True story.

Finally justice was done there.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')f Lescol (and drugs like it) were available for purchase in 3 month or 6 month batches, consumers would be able to save a tremendous amount of time and doctors wouldn't be swamped.

Another example, antidepressants. Once a patient stabilizes at a given dose, couldn't they just be given a 6 month supply?

[colliedog]

And you treat depressed people without seeing them also/?

[Gorm]

I hade a severe concussion in august. They did some kind of brainscan checking for bleedings in my head, among other things. Was hospitalised fore about 24 hours, mostly asleep. Cost for me to pay, 300 SEK (45 USD)

IF it had been some of my kids, there would have been nothing for me to pay, it would have been free.

I pay via the tax-bill. That is socialised medicin for you.

[ReverseEngineer]

Like many other systems of modern society, the Medical industry suffers from the evolution of too much complexity. Too many interdependent parts with often conflicting interests. The Pharmaceutical Industry, the Insurance Industry, the Legal Industry, the Goobermint and of course the AMA itself all are huge bureaucracies now.

At its core, the Medical profession was about a knoweldgeable Medicine Man treating a Patient in need. As the profession developed, you added in Nurses as Helpers to do routine tasks, freeing up the Doctor to see more patients. As the technology improved, Doctors couldn't do as good a job without the evolution of the Hospital that had capital intensive machines the individual doctor could not afford. The Hospital of course then needed Accoutants to figure out how many patients they needed to serve to afford a CAT Scanner, and then as the costs went up an Insurance industry grew to try to spread the risk for more and more costly and energy intensive care through the population.

Actuarially speaking, the whole Medical Profession and Industry as it evolved is like all the other ones, based on infinite growth. This includes infinite growth in expectation of what the industry can deliver in terms of extended life and better health for the population. While we grew in the presence of virtually unlimited energy, the medical industry was able to cover these costs, but no more. Now the bureaucracy which grew up around Medicine is like a lead weight sinking it rapidly to the bottom.

Its not surprising Doctors are ready to quit here, but just what are these folks going to do as an alternative? Go out and drive a truck? In the past, there were alternatives for these well trained and marginally intelligent technicians like working for a Pharmaceutical company or advising Lawyers in consulting, etc. However, as the industry as a whole collapses, there are not alternatives. They are in the short term as screwed as everyone else here, as screwed as the Auto worker who no longer has an auto factory to work in.

Doctors are better off than most though, because when the monetary system collapses, the knowledge they have can be bartered for food. People will always be getting sick, and doctors can sometimes help with this problem. However, they will have to help mostly without any drugs and mostly without any complex diagnostic equipment they have come to rely on. A stethoscope, palpitation,talking with the patient to gather up the symptoms to make a diganosis will be once again the way a doctor figures out what to do to help a patient. If he or she is good at this, keeps someone alive to be productive to the society, said doctor will be given a chicken or a goat. No complex Insurance forms, no huge staff of Accountants and technicians. Back tot he basics.

It will be a tough adjustment in downward mobility though, because the doctor is just a part of the society with not that much more value than a good sanitation worker or domestic. Anyone who works to keep the environment people live in clean will be doing just as much if not more to maintain the health of the population than a doctor does. On a social level, you are far better off training domestics to do the basic task of maintaining a clean environment that expecting doctors to cure diseases which mostly come from a corrupted environment.

The lifespan extension we achieved using the thermodynamic energy of oil is coming to a close. It was rare before Big Oil came to rule the world that people lived much past 60, that is why we established 65 as a retirement age and figured Social Security could cover it. You EXPECT most people will be DEAD by 65, and in the absence of modern medicines based on oil they WOULD be.

We will return to a world where most people are born, grow to reproductive age and live long enough to see their children thru to independence. Those with genetic problems will die young, they won't reproduce. Medicine Men and Women will still be around to help a few, set broken bones and drain cysts and ease the transition into death with extractions from a Poppy plant. However, the myth that we can extend the lifespan through medicine will go the way of the Dinosaur, as Big Oil fades into history.

Reverse Engineer

[smallpoxgirl]

I think that's a pretty good summary RE. The other big problem facing medicine right now is diminishing returns. In the US we've actually reached a point where the incremental return on extra dollars spent on healthcare is negative. We're spending so much on healthcare at this point that incremental dollars get spent on unnecessary test and unnecessary surgeries that end up shortening people's lives rather than prolonging them. There's a great graph from the World Health Organization, I'll try to find it. It compares life expectancy vs. per capita health costs by different countries. We're way off at the top in terms of expenditures, but our life expectancy is below that of countries that are on the sweet spot.

[3aidlillahi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', ' ')There's a great graph from the World Health Organization, I'll try to find it. It compares life expectancy vs. per capita health costs by different countries. We're way off at the top in terms of expenditures, but our life expectancy is below that of countries that are on the sweet spot.

[Heineken]

I think the collapsing health care "system" (more like a bowl of spaghetti) will lead to social unrest and eventually violence. There can be no nastier a social division than between people who have access to affordable and competently delivered health care and those who do not.

Last week something like 500,000 people lost their jobs, and therefore their health insurance. Their employment prospects going forward are grim, as are their prospects for health care access. As the mass of unemployed grows, you could see more and more scenarios in which people rob pharmacies at gunpoint or break into doctors' homes demanding care at gunpoint.

It's gonna get ugly. This will be another way people will be fighting for survival.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ouldn't that be related though to the health of the population? No amount of money in the world can save a person's life (or prolong it) if that person continues to smoke, drink, eat crap and no exercise. Given that we're probably the least healthy (pre-medical visit) nation on Earth and we have a high crime rate and high vehicular death rate per capita, it's not a shocker that we spend more on health care while we have a "bad" life expectancy. And again, we shouldn't forget about the costs associated with our lawyer epidemic in this country. Most other nations don't have that problem.

[Goatlady]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('twobyfouroftruth', 'W')el, let me help
MOST ilnesses are caused by peoples bad lifestyle.

Soon there WIL BE NO PHYCISIANS that will want to see you, and the ones you will see wil be PA's who havnt' a clue (who take full price pay from medicare all 15 dolars out of 100 worth)

Everyone will be given amoxilcilin and cough medicine and told to go to the ER if not better.

Those who go to ER will be sent back to the clinic.

Look, You have to get back to simple basic food two meals a day at about 1000 calories a day. This will get you healthy. Boil your water and drink a liter a day, exercise and loose weight if you are heavy.

If you smoke, stop
if you drink stop
give up al junk food and caffien

and buy aspirin and motrin and tylenol

If you have bad genes, and you have multiple illnesses, you just aren't going to make it through this.
Sorry, get your house in order.

[Lumpy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohcomeon', 'L')umpy,

If your claims aren't past timely filing limits I might be able to help you get that money... I can usually audit the claim data with the notes and RA and figure out what it needs to get it through the system. I am not saying you don't know what you're doing or intend to insult your ability. Just to offer some assistance.

Anyway, you can pm me if you are interested and haven't just chalked it up.

[galacticsurfer]

Doctors can't treat people without machines anymore. They can't read sysmptoms holistically from body signs visually, by hearing and feel. They are computer technicians reading charts and we are modern cars/machines. Doctors have to be switched out for a neww batch of witch doctors or shamans or something similar.

[smallpoxgirl]

This is the graph:

link

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', 'C')ouldn't that be related though to the health of the population?

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'T')he lifespan extension we achieved using the thermodynamic energy of oil is coming to a close. It was rare before Big Oil came to rule the world that people lived much past 60, that is why we established 65 as a retirement age and figured Social Security could cover it. You EXPECT most people will be DEAD by 65, and in the absence of modern medicines based on oil they WOULD be.

We will return to a world where most people are born, grow to reproductive age and live long enough to see their children thru to independence. Those with genetic problems will die young, they won't reproduce. Medicine Men and Women will still be around to help a few, set broken bones and drain cysts and ease the transition into death with extractions from a Poppy plant. However, the myth that we can extend the lifespan through medicine will go the way of the Dinosaur, as Big Oil fades into history.

Reverse Engineer

[coyote]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'T')his is the graph:

link

[3aidlillahi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I think the truth is more along the lines of no amount of money can save a person's life. Period. We're all going to die. There are some conditions that can be reasonably diagnosed and treated to prolong a person's life.