[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '
')The concept of Mutually Assured Destruction works. It works perfectly. It always has, and it always will.

[hope_full]

Thanks for the many replies and interesting posts. I suppose I really am hopeful that things won't be that bad.

Our local economy (thanks largely to the massive amount of military here in Norfolk) seems to be doing really well. I read the national news and it sounds like the sky is falling and then I look around at all the new construction and even new businesses opening here (locally) and it's quite an oxymoron.

Thanks again for the replies.

[Fredrik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pedalling_faster', 'i')f people had trouble getting along when resources were plenty, what reason is there to think they will get along when resources are scarce ?

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hope_full', 'T')hanks for the many replies and interesting posts. I suppose I really am hopeful that things won't be that bad.

Our local economy (thanks largely to the massive amount of military here in Norfolk) seems to be doing really well. I read the national news and it sounds like the sky is falling and then I look around at all the new construction and even new businesses opening here (locally) and it's quite an oxymoron.

Thanks again for the replies.

[efarmer]

Whenever I get a little doomy, I just think about 2010
when Mr. Bill finally loans me the money to order
a shiny red Chinese Buick Melamine convertible
from WalMart.

I dream about the sultry female voice from the
computer reminding me when I park:

"Efalmel, you reft youl rights on!"

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')IMHO, MAD will not work if the radicals take over Pakistan or Iran gets nukes. The reason these debates get so heated is the stakes are so high.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '"')I have the power to stop the nukes from flying. I shall sweep my arms about, so, and stop them dead in flight. I am EMPOWERED, gawddangit."

Thanks Pops. I feel empowered now.

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', 'I') regard that current attempts to cover over the financial disaster we are in as the WCOTC "Willy Coyote Over The Cliff" moment. You know that moment when he is suspended in mid-air, just before he looks down and then plummets.

The money and other rescue efforts that are flooding the markets represents that moment of anti-gravity, that is delaying the time when we need to act to protect ourselves and mitigate the enormous problems that are looming.
The longer the anti-gravity is applied, then longer we (as a collective society) continue on "business as usual", the worse the decent will be and the greater will be the acceleration applied.

[Quagmire]

.
I worry about Nuclear Disaster too, but of another sort:
As things break down, how can we know that the nuclear waste and the nuclear fuel cells in power plants are being "cared for" correctly?
These things require complex care, constant water baths, etc., protection from earthquakes and zombie hordes! They will require this care for tens of thousands of years. They will require this care from generations who have no idea WHY they are maintaining these strange things in this intensive way. It will become part of the ritual of our new tribal mythology.
Will there be a new order of monks and nuns whose spiritual practice is to devote their lives to keeping these monsters appeased?
How long before a mistake is made? And what is the price?
This is not as dramatic as nuclear war, but something I feel is even more likely to occur.
So, to answer the question, I do think things will be That bad, and then they will get worse.
Back to my canning now!

.

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pedalling_faster', '
')get worse ? the disintegration of a system that supports 750+ military bases around the world, is not necessarily bad, or worse.

the slowing down of a system built largely on American technologies, which pollute the F*ck out of the place we need to live, is not bad either.

if there is a Gaia, or a God, he/she/they might consider the changes we're witnessing a genuine cause for celebration.

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned1', 'S')ince people want to know what's going to happen in the future, I'll tell you. No, I'm not a psychic, far from it, but if anyone will just take a few minutes to look at things objectively, not through the lenses of what we want to happen, but what may come whether we like it or not, it's not too difficult to project the near future. Trends are the answer. Looking at past and current trends, barring some unforseen catastrophe (and there will be plenty of those - we are people after all), this is likely where the world will be in the next couple of years:

Things will go on, at least in the near term, pretty much as they've always gone on. It is a downward trend, yes, but a slow decline. SSDD.

About oil, even if there is a peak in the production of oil someday, most 'experts' predict that won't come for at least 20 years and others, like Exxon (not that we can expect anything like objectivity from them), are saying we have enough to last several hundred more years. As always, and this is a truism that applies in every single area of life, very likely the truth lies somewhere in the middle. We would all do well to remember that fact. It applies to everything. So forget about peak oil. It's not a problem now and won't anytime soon. Period.

About the economy, we've dug ourselves into a very deep hole, but, by and large, things haven't changed that much for the majority of people. A minority of people are hurting, sadly, but most people are doing just fine, thank you, and will continue to do just fine.

The U.S. will continue to print money just as Zimbabwe has done, but, unlike Zimbabwe, it won't do much damage here no matter how much they print. That's because dollars are the currency of choice on the international scene and because of that no major country is going to decouple at any cost no matter what. See China for an example. Their economy is teetering principally because of the dollar and yet they continue to buy our bad debt and will continue to do so.

In other words, the economies of the world have accepted the dollar, despite all it's flaws, as the international currency knowing that it has no intrinsic value in and of itself, knowing that the U.S. is simply printing paper, knowing that there is nothing behind it besides rhetoric. So the dollar has become, not cash but a type of credit. As long as countries continue to accept this situation, things will go on just as they always have. As I said earlier, it is a downward trend, but a slow decline.

The only real variable in all of this are the people themselves. By and large American's are an angry, unpredictable people. Not something intrinsic in themselves, rather it's a mentality created and fed by the ratings loving media. Without that unrelenting negativity, that constant desire to find the bad in every single situation, without that mob mentality which serves principally the interests of the media, attitudes would stablize, people would moderate, things would cool down and the world situation would finally improve. But the media has built itself a very powerful fortress. And so things have gone from bad to worse and will continue to do so. Another prediction, unfortunately. And in that may be the knot which will unravel for us all.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quagmire', '.')
I worry about Nuclear Disaster too, but of another sort:
As things break down, how can we know that the nuclear waste and the nuclear fuel cells in power plants are being "cared for" correctly?
These things require complex care, constant water baths, etc., protection from earthquakes and zombie hordes! They will require this care for tens of thousands of years. They will require this care from generations who have no idea WHY they are maintaining these strange things in this intensive way. It will become part of the ritual of our new tribal mythology.
Will there be a new order of monks and nuns whose spiritual practice is to devote their lives to keeping these monsters appeased?
How long before a mistake is made? And what is the price?
This is not as dramatic as nuclear war, but something I feel is even more likely to occur.
So, to answer the question, I do think things will be That bad, and then they will get worse.
Back to my canning now!

.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quagmire', 'T')hey will require this care from generations who have no idea WHY they are maintaining these strange things in this intensive way. It will become part of the ritual of our new tribal mythology.

[patience]

I think it is more like Homer Simpson guarding the nuclear plant. He gets drunk, opens the wrong valve, and the whole works does the China syndrome into a glowing hole.

Long before we need to worry about nuke plants, though, we first will see a nuclear meltdown of the US economy, in progress as we speak. YES. It WILL get that bad. See Iceland, exhibit A, and Argentina, exhibit B, then Zimbabwe, exhibit C.

The pivot point now is the market for US Treasury securities. They will be the safest thing on the planet, next to PM's and land, right up until they are not. It looks like we are set up to see the US do the Iceland thing, when the US budget can't be financed. Could happen in a matter of days, I've heard, from some trigger event that causes Treasuries to fail. Already there have been bond auction failures in the US, Germany, and other countries.

Fiat currencies all end the same way. The dollar is no exception. It is well past time to get off your duff and prep, if you haven't done so already.

Watch the bonds! Well, by the time you hear about it, the damage will be done, as in cooked. Better have the preps done NOW!

[IgnoranceIsBliss]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quagmire', '.')
I worry about Nuclear Disaster too, but of another sort:
As things break down, how can we know that the nuclear waste and the nuclear fuel cells in power plants are being "cared for" correctly?
These things require complex care, constant water baths, etc., protection from earthquakes and zombie hordes! They will require this care for tens of thousands of years. They will require this care from generations who have no idea WHY they are maintaining these strange things in this intensive way. It will become part of the ritual of our new tribal mythology.
Will there be a new order of monks and nuns whose spiritual practice is to devote their lives to keeping these monsters appeased?
How long before a mistake is made? And what is the price?
This is not as dramatic as nuclear war, but something I feel is even more likely to occur.
So, to answer the question, I do think things will be That bad, and then they will get worse.
Back to my canning now!

.

[colliedog]

Every day, in every way, things just get better and better.

[colliedog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quagmire', 'T')hey will require this care from generations who have no idea WHY they are maintaining these strange things in this intensive way. It will become part of the ritual of our new tribal mythology.

[shady28]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IgnoranceIsBliss', '
')
This scenerio came to mind when I saw a show on TV recently about what would happen if all humans suddenly disappeared. The nuke plants overheated and then blew up.