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THE Communism Thread (merged)

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby cube » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 18:24:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', 'f')unny this liberal thing. A Liberal is very very far from a communist/socialist. But not in the US as I get, there liberal equals som kind of communist/socialist. Why is that?
Liberalism - Socialism - Communism: are 3 different things.

If you're asking why are so many Americans anti-socialist,
Do you really want to know?
The short answer is because we are Americans.

The long answer.....
The greatest hero in American folklore is the cowboy.
A cowboy may not be rich, smart, and he certainly does not come from an impressive family lineage.
But he is a burden to no man and owes nobody nothing.
Every dollar he spends came from doing honest work by the sweat of his brow and using his own two hands. --> NOT by mooching off other people or government.
Simply stated, a cowboy only spends what he earns.

Today in the 21st century very few Americans walk around wearing cowboy hats and even less so ride horseback but make no mistake, the "cowboy mentality" is still a very important part of American culture.
In the USA if you have to receive assistance from the government it is an embarrassment.
It's a sign of failure and it means you're mooching off someone else's hard work.
here's an example:
I had a friend who used to work as a cashier at a grocery store during the graveyard shift, he told me after midnight is when all the "food-stamp" shoppers come out.
You know why? Because people are embarrassed.
People who have to use food-stamps either drive far out of town to do their grocery shopping so none of their friends or neighbors can see them either that or go grocery shopping after midnight and hope nobody sees them.
There's probably a lot more examples but I'll leave it there.

my 2 cents...
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby Quinny » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 18:31:05

Liberalism - Socialism - Communism: are 3 different things. Correct.

State Capitalism or Stalinism is another different thing.

American's are a bunch of cowboys mmm... He said it...

I think he's maybe just talking about the w..bankers now.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', 'f')unny this liberal thing. A Liberal is very very far from a communist/socialist. But not in the US as I get, there liberal equals som kind of communist/socialist. Why is that?


If you're asking why are so many Americans anti-socialist,
Do you really want to know?
The short answer is because we are Americans.

The long answer.....
The greatest hero in American folklore is the cowboy.
A cowboy may not be rich, smart, and he certainly does not come from an impressive family lineage.
But he is a burden to no man and owes nobody nothing.
Every dollar he spends came from doing honest work by the sweat of his brow and using his own two hands. --> NOT by mooching off other people or government.
Simply stated, a cowboy only spends what he earns.

Today in the 21st century very few Americans walk around wearing cowboy hats and even less so ride horseback but make no mistake, the "cowboy mentality" is still a very important part of American culture.
In the USA if you have to receive assistance from the government it is an embarrassment.
It's a sign of failure and it means you're mooching off someone else's hard work.
here's an example:
I had a friend who used to work as a cashier at a grocery store during the graveyard shift, he told me after midnight is when all the "food-stamp" shoppers come out.
You know why? Because people are embarrassed.
People who have to use food-stamps either drive far out of town to do their grocery shopping so none of their friends or neighbors can see them either that or go grocery shopping after midnight and hope nobody sees them.
There's probably a lot more examples but I'll leave it there.

my 2 cents...
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby VMarcHart » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 18:46:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'I')n the USA if you have to receive assistance from the government it is an embarrassment.
As I understand it, there are over 120 welfare look-alike programs in the US. TAFN alone serves more than 4 million people. None of the people I know who receive welfare assitance seem to be embarrassed. But then, my friends are not model citizens, myself included.
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby cube » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 19:24:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'I')n the USA if you have to receive assistance from the government it is an embarrassment.
As I understand it, there are over 120 welfare look-alike programs in the US. TAFN alone serves more than 4 million people. None of the people I know who receive welfare assitance seem to be embarrassed. But then, my friends are not model citizens, myself included.
Maybe I'm stuck in the past and times are changing who knows?

However there is a BIG difference between Americans vs. Western Europeans in what society expects from government and how much "support" one should receive from government.
You may remember during the presidential election Hillary Clinton was pushing really hard for *Universal Health Care*.
The plan was obviously rejected because if it wasn't then we'd have our first female president right now.
Even Obama, "the socialist according to his opponents" doesn't even dare open his mouth and propose universal health care.

My theory of the American "cowboy mentality" helps explain why this is the case.
Is my theory wrong? --> maybe yes / maybe not.
However if you have a better theory to explain why Americans are Americans and Europeans are Europeans I'm listening... :wink:
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby coyotl » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 19:26:38

In the US you have socialism for the rich and the corporations,
working people get to pay..
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby nobodypanic » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 19:34:16

cowboys, eh? here's one for you: brokeback mountain.
*************
you know why young people can't stand this crap? because it's an empty, vapid, whore of a system that provides no meaning to life, embarks on no great human endeavors, is concerned with nothing but profit, and grinds people up like disposable commodities.

capitalism is a system whose time has come at an end. we can all smell the blood in the air and the stink of its rot. they're simply drawn to an alternative, to something else.

that which is about to fall, push!
Last edited by nobodypanic on Sun 16 Nov 2008, 19:35:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby cube » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 19:35:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyotl', 'I')n the US you have socialism for the rich and the corporations,
working people get to pay..
That sounds like Europe. :)

Look at all those "national champions" corporations / industries that exist only because of government support.
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby Snowrunner » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 19:38:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', 'B')ut then, my friends are not model citizens, myself included.


Interesting choice of words. What, in your opinion, is a model citizen supposed to do? Pay their taxes, cast their ballots and shut up? Or is there a different metric?

I think the "Don't ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." mindset is the wrong one. Both have to do things for each other, or why have a country at all?
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby TonisD » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 19:52:09

The system that Lenin started and then Stalin perfected in Russia, had only 1 rule - the only life that is sacred, is the great leader's one. They killed countless millions while preaching the wonders of communism. More people died by killing squads for nothing than the entire WW2 casualty numbers for all sides combined.

If you want to know, what that time and communism meant for Russia, look up a sobering movie called Soviet Story. Young people who are mesmerized by communism, will get a wake-up call they will never forget. It's a system that does not work, has no governing body over the leadership and where human life is nothing - a statistic against "the greater good".
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby coyotl » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 20:28:59

Many people died at Stalin's orders, 10 million is a figure I seem to recall having seen but the death toll in WW2 was of course higher.
After the war the US corporate empire fought wars to impose the right of the multinationals to plunder the 'third world' and enslave people, 3 million died in Vietnam alone, 1 million slaughtered in by the West's hitman Suharto in Indonesia 1965, nice guys like El Salvador's Roberto d'Aubuisson at work in the 80s --the death toll in corporate wars after 1945 is monstrous. USSR was always far weaker but useful as bogeyman.
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby coyotl » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 20:38:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyotl', 'I')n the US you have socialism for the rich and the corporations,
working people get to pay..
That sounds like Europe. :)

Look at all those "national champions" corporations / industries that exist only because of government support.


I'm not interested in defending European corporations but Europe is obviously capitalist and they make profit or die, they cannot run on subsidies.
But look at US 'defense' spending, Iraq contractors (this has of course gotten perticularly insane under the Bush gang) ..
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby deMolay » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 23:20:04

"We Are All Travellers, From The Sweet Grass To The Packing House, From Birth To Death, We Wander Between The Two Eternities". An Old Cowboy.
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby deMolay » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 23:30:17

"We Are All Travellers, From The Sweet Grass To The Packing House, From Birth To Death, We Wander Between The Two Eternities". An Old Cowboy.
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby deMolay » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 23:46:47

"We Are All Travellers, From The Sweet Grass To The Packing House, From Birth To Death, We Wander Between The Two Eternities". An Old Cowboy.
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby deMolay » Sun 16 Nov 2008, 23:55:32

"We Are All Travellers, From The Sweet Grass To The Packing House, From Birth To Death, We Wander Between The Two Eternities". An Old Cowboy.
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby deMolay » Mon 17 Nov 2008, 00:32:52

"We Are All Travellers, From The Sweet Grass To The Packing House, From Birth To Death, We Wander Between The Two Eternities". An Old Cowboy.
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby jbrovont » Mon 17 Nov 2008, 02:54:05

While a socialist economic system is typically tied to an authoritarian right-wing government to form what is commonly referred to as a "communist state", I'm speaking on socialism in its literal context as an economic theory and not to its usual manifestation.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbrovont', 'Y')ou're poking at a fundamental difference between a reactionary and proactive methodology. Some people look at a crime problem and think "Hmm - we need more police and stricter laws" while others think "What's causing people to turn to crime?"


Well. communism is definitly in the stricter laws, more punishment category, one can get shot fore almost anything, for exampel, in the 60´s some were shot in in the soviet union for selling jeans on the black market, witch were illegal as an exampel.


Sorry for the obscure reference. :) I've had several biology professors refer to ants as "the most successful organism on the plant" simply because they tend to survive when and where not much else does. In truth some forms of colony organisms are "more successful" survival wise, but we'd be talking about bacteria and organisms like that, which are less relatable to most people than the ants we see crawling around seemingly everywhere.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gorm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbrovont', 'T')he single most successful organism on the planet is 100% communistic, but people aren't happy as ants. Balance is key. Food for thought.


What is the singel most successful organism on the planet? And on what grounds do one judge that?
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby Alcassin » Mon 17 Nov 2008, 04:23:53

Okay,

Why do you equate social welfare programs with gulag/Stalin?
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby GreyGhost » Mon 17 Nov 2008, 04:29:16

Older people prefer capitalism because older people tend to have more money.
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Re: Why is communism so appealing to young people?

Unread postby TonisD » Mon 17 Nov 2008, 05:08:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyotl', 'M')any people died at Stalin's orders, 10 million is a figure I seem to recall having seen but the death toll in WW2 was of course higher.


That number is far, far higher.
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