[topfuel]

here is to my family who died in WW II ,and to all soldiers..
CNN has a much better memorial then the canadian CBC memorial,
personnal LEST WE FORGET


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apologies to the mediator ,I promise that was no coded message
I try to make points short!(11,11,11) original message

LEST WE FORGET

[Maddog78]

Just came in from a short service outside of my building.

Lest we forget!

[obixman]

The eleventh hour of
the eleventh day of
the eleventh month of
1918.

Most people are well aware of WWII, but in my opinion WWI changed the world to a much greater degree. We are still dealing with the lines drawn on maps for borders without concern for the local population.

Huge population losses which still echo down in the demographics of many states.

Massive changes in political and social theories.

A huge "loss of innocence" in people's thinking and beliefs.


I can imagine the world and people in the 30's, but the thinking of people before WWI is strange and usual to me.

Here's to all those who have faught and died in wars, and those who have served in peacetime.

[pup55]

There is a place in northern Italy, northeast of Verona, where there is a lovely spot overlooking a river valley. So beautiful now, with vineyards and thousand foot limestone cliffs. Sight distance is about 15 miles in either direction.

During WWI, there was an artillery brigade stationed there. Their mission was to hit anything that moved in the valley, which was a supply line. They got pretty good at it, from all reports. As usual, the killing technology of the day exceeded the humans' judgment to use it. Being a fixed position, they could not advance themselves. The other side periodically made a senseless charge to free up the valley, but no way.

So from what I understand, this basically went on for about four years. Neither side could get the advantage. What were they thinking? You have to wonder at what point they forgot why they were there in the first place. Silly humans.

At the end, they entombed the dead in a mausoleum, placed at the same spot. 50,000 in all, roughly the same as the current living population of the valley. Didn't matter which side they were on. They put them all in there together.

Here it is, just in case you think I am some kind of BS artist that makes this stuff up.

Rovereto Mausoleum

Anyway, eventually they took the scrap artillery pieces, and cast it into a giant bell, which they ring on special occasions. Probably today is one of those occasions.

There are monuments like this all over Europe.

The point of all of this: If there was one of these monuments in every middle sized town in the US, where there would be a daily reminder of the stupidity, we would probably be a lot more reluctant to repeat the mistake with our current generation of young people. Just saying.

p.s. Today, the local population there is completely delightful. Fun loving, kind of an artistic place, since there is a famous music school there, attractive females, food and the local vintage absolutely wonderful. Nice and laid back, but with a young population so as to have a little night life. Right on the train line, so you can get there cheaply from anywhere in Europe. I highly recommend it.

[topfuel]

Yes WW 1 was a savage ground war,the people suffered ,I can't
see much to the difference in any war.
LEST WE FORGET

[ROCKMAN]

pup,

There's a similar spot in Belgium north of Bruge. A cross roads under similar art. positions. I don't recall the exact number, but serval hundred thousand died during the course of the war. The old generals just stuck with the middle age approach to warfare: the country with the most soldiers living in the end wins. How many died in the process wasn't relevent.

Very humbling to sit at a roadside cafe there and picture the carnage (lots of photos in the cafe showing the piles of bodies).

[pedalling_faster]

an image from the front lines at Gallipoli



from
Digger History website

[galacticsurfer]

war is populaiton control. If there weren't a lot of young men there wouldhave been no war. Europe is now very old and Japan too. Why does the US go to war? Because lots of young people are willing ot fight due to unemployment. Overpopulaiton leads to unemploymnet and hunger which leads to war as an outlet.

[topfuel]

poppylation control not in my life time.

LEST WE FORGET

[Twilight]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('galacticsurfer', 'w')ar is populaiton control.

[ROCKMAN]

surfer,

You make the same incorrect assumption John Kerry did. The average education level of the US military exceeds that of the general population. Many are college trained. There was a time when the military accepted volunteers who were poorly educated but that ended many years ago. Only lately, with the man power drain of Iraq, has the US military begun lowering the standards.

Regardless of one's view towards armed conflict, the great majority of US service men and women are there because it is a career they want. And those who don't remain for a career have better than average job opportunities in civilian life. Check with any HR folks you know: military experience is considered a big plus by many of them.

Just a friendly suggestion: you might go hang with some military folks and develop your own first hand impressions.

[AlexdeLarge]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 's')urfer,

You make the same incorrect assumption John Kerry did. The average education level of the US military exceeds that of the general population. Many are college trained. There was a time when the military accepted volunteers who were poorly educated but that ended many years ago. Only lately, with the man power drain of Iraq, has the US military begun lowering the standards.

Regardless of one's view towards armed conflict, the great majority of US service men and women are there because it is a career they want. And those who don't remain for a career have better than average job opportunities in civilian life. Check with any HR folks you know: military experience is considered a big plus by many of them.

Just a friendly suggestion: you might go hang with some military folks and develop your own first hand impressions.

[ROCKMAN]

Alex,

I don't necessarily think the surfer meant to sound derogatory. Lots of folks don’t realize how much the military has changed over the years. There was a time when convicted criminals were given the option: join the army or go to jail.

Besides educational opportunities and post-service advantages, there is always that patriotic motive. I know more then a few young ones who think W is an idiot and his plans for Iraq not well thought out. But that didn’t change their sense of responsibility to serve their country. This last statement will be difficult for many to understand but I suspect you do.

[Cid_Yama]

The Band Played Waltzing Matilda

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=N_DvJ00jC ... re=related

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'A')lex,

I don't necessarily think the surfer meant to sound derogatory. Lots of folks don’t realize how much the military has changed over the years. There was a time when convicted criminals were given the option: join the army or go to jail.

Besides educational opportunities and post-service advantages, there is always that patriotic motive. I know more then a few young ones who think W is an idiot and his plans for Iraq not well thought out. But that didn’t change their sense of responsibility to serve their country. This last statement will be difficult for many to understand but I suspect you do.

[Madpaddy]

Visited the WW1 battlefields a few years ago with my dad. Cried my eyes out at several of the memorials but don't tell anyone... okay. I defy anyone to visit there and not be moved by the absolute senselessness and horror of it all. Here is a lovely song and one of my party pieces.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')h how do you do, young Willy McBride
Do you mind if I sit here down by your graveside
And rest for a while in the warm summer sun
I've been walking all day, and I'm nearly done
And I see by your gravestone you were only nineteen
When you joined the great fallen in 1916
Well I hope you died quick
And I hope you died clean
Or Willy McBride, was is it slow and obscene

Did they beat the drums slowly
Did they play the fife lowly
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down
Did the band play the last post and chorus
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

And did you leave a wife or a sweetheart behind
In some loyal heart is your memory enshrined
And though you died back in 1916
To that loyal heart you're forever nineteen
Or are you a stranger without even a name
Forever enshrined behind some old glass pane
In an old photograph torn, tattered, and stained
And faded to yellow in a brown leather frame

Did they beat the drums slowly
Did they play the fife lowly
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down
Did the band play the last post and chorus
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

The sun shining down on these green fields of France
The warm wind blows gently and the red poppies dance
The trenches have vanished long under the plow
No gas, no barbed wire, no guns firing now
But here in this graveyard that's still no mans land
The countless white crosses in mute witness stand
To man's blind indifference to his fellow man
And a whole generation were butchered and damned

Did they beat the drums slowly
Did they play the fife lowly
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down
Did the band play the last post and chorus
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

And I can't help but wonder oh Willy McBride
Do all those who lie here know why they died
Did you really believe them when they told you the cause
Did you really believe that this war would end wars
Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame
The killing and dying it was all done in vain
Oh Willy McBride it all happened again
And again, and again, and again, and again

Did they beat the drums slowly
Did they play the fife lowly
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down
Did the band play the last post and chorus
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

[Maddog78]

Dropkick Murphys!

Great song.

[Cid_Yama]

The Green Fields of France

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OqStasuU3 ... re=related

[Madpaddy]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WG48Ftsr3OI

Waltzing Matilda - Gallipoli. Very good also.

[ROCKMAN]

So true flurry. Most folks don't realize how many civilian contractors are stationed on Navy vessels to man those high tech toys. I suspect the same is true for the Air Force. A big business indeed. And folks also don't realize how much gov't contracts have helped the big US auto makers survive this long.