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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby Schneider » Tue 09 Sep 2008, 22:44:51

I'm the one who voted "no"..

Before slamming me in a corner to rape me..Think about it..How can you legitimately represent peoples in a ELECTION , AS A PARTY, if the chief of the party is not even elected !?

Now, for very selfish reasons, i hope the conservatives win big this time..I'm death tired to have a TARGET printed on my back because votes starved gun banners want to take away WHAT IS MINE again all common sense, logic and morality.

God, you guys don't know how i want badly to see the lieberals being kicked out of the political landscape, same thing with the Bloc Quebecois :-x !

As for the Bloc, i'll send a bottle of cheap wine to Duceppe if they lose 5 seats and SWEAR that i'll give it MYSELF to him if they lose 10 seats :twisted: ..
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby auscanman » Tue 09 Sep 2008, 23:02:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DaleFromCalgary', '"')signs started going up in some ridings last week. Both in breach of the Election Laws in Canada."

In Calgary, the Greens had their signs up two days before the election was called.

The Liberals haven't a hope in Alberta because of their carbon tax plan (Green Shift) but everyone knew before the election was called that Alberta will remain solid Tory. The fighting for swing ridings will be in southern Ontario, Vancouver, and a few miscellaneous urban centres.

Can anyone from Newfoundland advise what the mood is? Will the Liberals lose votes because of the offshore oil rigs?



The Conservatives could run a corpse in all but 3 or 4 ridings in Alberta and still win comfortably. There are quite a few ridings where no opposition candidate even breaks a double digit percentage of the vote! Alberta Conservative MPs have amongst the highest levels of job security of (even more so than GTA Liberals) of anyone in politics... or any career for that matter.

I hope both the Liberals and Conservatives lose support. Until someone shows they're fit to govern, which neither Harper nor Dion have, the more evenly support is split between the four parties (I'm not counting the Bloc), the better.
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby Snowrunner » Tue 09 Sep 2008, 23:07:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schneider', 'I')'m the one who voted "no"..

Before slamming me in a corner to rape me..Think about it..How can you legitimately represent peoples in a ELECTION , AS A PARTY, if the chief of the party is not even elected !?


Actually the party elected her, not only that but they did also vote on their party program, unlike the other parties in Canada who have a "top down" approach mostly.

Then there is that Elections Canada set a bar of 2% of the popular vote as a requirement to get funding. Or differently: As the Greens took almost 5% in the last Federal election YOUR tax dollars are paying to support the Green Party already.

As such, don't you think you should hear what your taxes are being spent on?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow, for very selfish reasons, i hope the conservatives win big this time..I'm death tired to have a TARGET printed on my back because votes starved gun banners want to take away WHAT IS MINE again all common sense, logic and morality.


Okay, maybe I am missing something, but outside of some local Governments (e.g. Miller in Toronto) I haven't really heard a lot about anybody trying to take away your precious firearms. Unless you're still stabbing at the Gun Registry.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')od, you guys don't know how i want badly to see the lieberals being kicked out of the political landscape, same thing with the Bloc Quebecois :-x !


Funny, many people I know, even some staunch Alberta Conservatives, admitted to be holding their nose when they cast their ballot for the Conservative party (more directly Harper) again. So why are they still voting for them? Because that's how Grandpa and Daddy did it.

Former Progressive Conservatives I've worked with in Toronto are trying to decide whether not to vot, voting independent or Green.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s for the Bloc, i'll send a bottle of cheap wine to Duceppe if they lose 5 seats and SWEAR that i'll give it MYSELF to him if they lose 10 seats :twisted: ..


Quebec will be interesting to watch. I am having the feeling though that you may not have to either pay postage or make the trip :twisted:
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby keehah » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 00:23:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', 'I')'m not supportive of the Green party, which is really a Libertarian group painted green.


Interesting that Green's leader, Elizabeth May, was mentered by Maurice Strong, also a mentor to David Suzuki, , Paul Martin (ex Canadian PM) and Al Gore, and was UN Secretary General during the Earth Summit.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')Strong] told Maclean's in 1976 that he was "a socialist in ideology, a capitalist in methodology."
Link

May's main accomplishments are banishing Green candidates who haved discussed 911 on the internet years and to champion taxes proposed by other parties. I used to vote green.

04 2006:[Brian] Mulroney praised for his green record as PM
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')rime Minister Stephen Harper was among the guests, and told reporters earlier Thursday that the celebration showed a new understanding of Mulroney by environmentalists...

Elizabeth May of the Sierra Club, who helped initiate Thursday's event, told The Canadian Press that Mulroney made the environment a priority for his government.
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby Canuk » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 01:41:47

I suspect most of the few Canadians who will watch the debate would want her included. I'd love to see her unseat Belinda's old boyfriend...

The one who shouldn't be in the debate is Duceppe since they don't even run outside Quebec - not really a national leader if you only run in 65 seats.

The entire election is a huge waste of money since the final result will likely be similar to today - perhaps a slightly larger PC minority

Perhaps Ontario should start a Bloc Ontario - 109 seats would get us a minority.
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby Schneider » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 07:55:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '
')
Okay, maybe I am missing something, but outside of some local Governments (e.g. Miller in Toronto) I haven't really heard a lot about anybody trying to take away your precious firearms. Unless you're still stabbing at the Gun Registry.


I guess you haven't paid attention to the news latelly..

Dion was at Dawson collegue two days ago, with the sister of the victime, anastasia de sousa, calling for a ban on all hangduns and "military-style" (whatever it may mean) firearms with probably Wendy Cukier not too far away (who spoke not too long ago about how terrible and powerful were some hunting rifles)..

It mean a awful lot of guns taken away from law abiding citizens who asked nothing but to be left alone :x !
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby Nickel » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 08:03:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Canuk', 'P')erhaps Ontario should start a Bloc Ontario - 109 seats would get us a minority.


The problem with that is that Ontario is actually a complicated political entity with an electorate that reacts to change and votes accordingly rather than nosing the same button to get the same pellet over and over and over like, say, Alberta, Quebec, Alberta, or Alberta. A "Bloc" party wouldn't work in Ontario.
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby Snowrunner » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 13:08:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schneider', 'I')t mean a awful lot of guns taken away from law abiding citizens who asked nothing but to be left alone :x !


My personal take is:

Fully Automatic weapons? What for? Hunting deer?
Handguns? Split a bit. I think they have very little use outside of "self defense" (something where I think it is of questionable usability).
Long Guns / Hunting Rifles: Useful, leave them people alone.

And before that is brought up again, the idea that you need guns to defend yourself against the state is a nice one, but these days the Government has more people, more guns and tanks. Enjoy (even your full automatic) weapons and let us know how the uprising went.

Until we (as a society) lose the "me me me" attitude no matter how many guns you have will protect you from Government abuse.
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby strider3700 » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 14:45:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '
')
Fully Automatic weapons? What for? Hunting deer?


Full Auto are already Prohibited weapons in Canada so unless you're one of the very few left around that had them grandfathered in back in the 70's I believe you can't legally have them period. Even if you can have them it's a very rare day that you can get the paperwork to use them at a range. They can't legally be used anywhere else.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '
')Handguns? Split a bit. I think they have very little use outside of "self defense" (something where I think it is of questionable usability).

Legally handguns fall under restricted or prohibited depending on caliber and length and general government whims.

If Restricted you have to take an additional course/test to purchase/own them and then they can only be used at an appropriate range. They have pretty strict storage and transport rules (I store mine in a safe. and to transport to the range they are unloaded, with trigger lock, in a locked box) They are not legal for hunting anywhere. And unless you get a special (almost impossible to get) permit to carry them in the wilderness you can't just be packing them around. You have to take them from home to the range and back without taking all day and going all over town to get there. You need a special permit to transport them which will define how strict the transportation will be. Mine says too and from the range anytime. Some state from here to there during a specific time frame.
I use mine for target shooting. Never had to use them for self defense but I have no doubts that they'll stop a person so long as I do my part correctly.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '
')Long Guns / Hunting Rifles: Useful, leave them people alone.

The problem comes in how do you define Long guns and hunting rifles. The gun Gill used to kill that girl was a semi automatic 9mm rifle that falls under restricted. It's restricted because it's barrel length is shorter then the minimum length to not be restricted.

There are lots and lots of semiautomatic hunting rifles that aren't listed as restricted. Whats the difference? usually length sometimes caliber and occasionally specific rifles are just listed as restricted.

There are lots of semiautomatic rifles that are used by the military. They also work fine in some cases for hunting. Just change the black plastic/metal stock to a nice wood one and everyone seems to think it's a hunting rifle so it's good. The hole they make is exactly the same.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '
')And before that is brought up again, the idea that you need guns to defend yourself against the state is a nice one, but these days the Government has more people, more guns and tanks. Enjoy (even your full automatic) weapons and let us know how the uprising went.

Until we (as a society) lose the "me me me" attitude no matter how many guns you have will protect you from Government abuse.


For the argument that the government has more tanks and guns take a look at either Afghanistan or Iraq. The Insurgents are grossly out gunned and out manned but are keeping the fight going.

Having said that I've never been worried about the government coming to get me. I'm far more worried about something like meth addicts that decide my house looks like easy pickings and don't care at all about mine or my familes well being. I know that the quickest police can respond to my house is in the 20 minute range. It's amazing how much can happen in 20 minutes, I'd rather not be forced to wait.

People need to get over the idea that some guns are good/ok and some guns are evil/bad. It's the people using the gun that make all the difference. I don't see anyway to prevent bad guys from existing and guns are always going to be available if you don't care about the law. I just don't want the legal ownership choice to be taken away from me.
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 15:02:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('strider3700', 'N')ever had to use them for self defense but I have no doubts that they'll stop a person so long as I do my part correctly.


And you'll never be able to use them for self defense, since it's unloaded with a trigger lock, locked in a safe and never on your person. Which is of course, the whole point. In Canada, in order to use a firearm for self defense, you would first have to be violating the law yourself. It is against the law for you to defend yourself.

Think about that the next time you think the government isn't "out to get you".
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby strider3700 » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 15:48:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('strider3700', 'N')ever had to use them for self defense but I have no doubts that they'll stop a person so long as I do my part correctly.


And you'll never be able to use them for self defense, since it's unloaded with a trigger lock, locked in a safe and never on your person. Which is of course, the whole point. In Canada, in order to use a firearm for self defense, you would first have to be violating the law yourself. It is against the law for you to defend yourself.

Think about that the next time you think the government isn't "out to get you".


No need for a trigger lock if it's in a safe. You can get gun safes that work off of a fingerprint. So store the gun in the safe with a fully loaded clip sitting right beside it. Total time to have a ready to go firearm is under 10 seconds which beats the hell out of police response time anywhere never mind in the boonies like I am.

As for the legalities of defending yourself with a firearm it all comes down to how this works out in court.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')very one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.


So it's all going to come down to the specifics of each case. Either way if I felt I needed to use the firearm to defend myself I'd do it and take my chances in court latter. I have my doubts that a jury would find many people guilty of using too much force in defending themselves in their own home.
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby Snowrunner » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 18:25:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('strider3700', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '
')
Fully Automatic weapons? What for? Hunting deer?


Full Auto are already Prohibited weapons in Canada so unless you're one of the very few left around that had them grandfathered in back in the 70's I believe you can't legally have them period. Even if you can have them it's a very rare day that you can get the paperwork to use them at a range. They can't legally be used anywhere else.


Actually I am just going through the styles of guns :)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '
')Handguns? Split a bit. I think they have very little use outside of "self defense" (something where I think it is of questionable usability).

Legally handguns fall under restricted or prohibited depending on caliber and length and general government whims.

If Restricted you have to take an additional course/test to purchase/own them and then they can only be used at an appropriate range. They have pretty strict storage and transport rules (I store mine in a safe. and to transport to the range they are unloaded, with trigger lock, in a locked box) They are not legal for hunting anywhere. And unless you get a special (almost impossible to get) permit to carry them in the wilderness you can't just be packing them around. You have to take them from home to the range and back without taking all day and going all over town to get there. You need a special permit to transport them which will define how strict the transportation will be. Mine says too and from the range anytime. Some state from here to there during a specific time frame.
I use mine for target shooting. Never had to use them for self defense but I have no doubts that they'll stop a person so long as I do my part correctly.


I know there is a limit on it, but then the question is why have them out at all? Why not keep them at ranges at all times?

Again, that won't solve guns coming into the country illegally, not to mention necessarily reduce gun violence, but that's a question of enforcing it at the border, and the way it currently is handled.... Let's just say it's a bit odd.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he problem comes in how do you define Long guns and hunting rifles. The gun Gill used to kill that girl was a semi automatic 9mm rifle that falls under restricted. It's restricted because it's barrel length is shorter then the minimum length to not be restricted.

There are lots and lots of semiautomatic hunting rifles that aren't listed as restricted. Whats the difference? usually length sometimes caliber and occasionally specific rifles are just listed as restricted.

There are lots of semiautomatic rifles that are used by the military. They also work fine in some cases for hunting. Just change the black plastic/metal stock to a nice wood one and everyone seems to think it's a hunting rifle so it's good. The hole they make is exactly the same.


For me (personally) the difference lies in the "easy conceilability" of a gun and clip size.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or the argument that the government has more tanks and guns take a look at either Afghanistan or Iraq. The Insurgents are grossly out gunned and out manned but are keeping the fight going.

Yes, but they are also united in their idea to get the foreigner out. That's what I meant with the "me me me" attitude. The idea to get enough people together to make a stand and make a difference.... I don't see that, either in North America or Europe.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')aving said that I've never been worried about the government coming to get me. I'm far more worried about something like meth addicts that decide my house looks like easy pickings and don't care at all about mine or my familes well being. I know that the quickest police can respond to my house is in the 20 minute range. It's amazing how much can happen in 20 minutes, I'd rather not be forced to wait.

Sure, but there are other ways you can minimize that risk, putting some money in programs that actually WORK instead of "cutting people off" because "they are just addicts" may do the trick.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eople need to get over the idea that some guns are good/ok and some guns are evil/bad. It's the people using the gun that make all the difference. I don't see anyway to prevent bad guys from existing and guns are always going to be available if you don't care about the law. I just don't want the legal ownership choice to be taken away from me.

It's not about good or bad (for me anyway), it's about primary use. Guns are tools, any tool can be abused.

I think in political terms you would call that "dual use".
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby Snowrunner » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 23:20:11

Well, looky here:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/stor ... bates.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')reen Leader Elizabeth May will be allowed into the federal leaders' debates, Canada's main broadcasters confirmed late Wednesday afternoon.

The networks, including the CBC, had originally ruled on Monday that May could not participate because three of Canada's parties were opposed to her inclusion.

The broadcasters changed course after Conservative Leader Stephen Harper and NDP Leader Jack Layton indicated earlier Wednesday that they no longer oppose May's participation in the debates on Oct. 1 and Oct. 2.

May said she was happy the networks' original decision was reversed.


How gracious of Harper and Layton.
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby Schneider » Wed 10 Sep 2008, 23:50:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '
')I know there is a limit on it, but then the question is why have them out at all? Why not keep them at ranges at all times?


Sorry, it's pretty late and i don't have much time before going to bed so i will answer just this one for now..

The subject came to the table when they were working on this law..anastasia or Law 9 here in Quebec..It didn't make it to the parliament! Even the CFO (officer in charge of the application of the c-68 law in a province) was dead again it.

First, it is too costly for a number of reasons : Climate ,humidity and temperature must be strictly regulated. Otherwise, rust here i come.

Second, you DON'T want to put everything at the range is because most of them are FAR away of anything, the response time are VERY LONG.

Third, it's a fantastic shopping mall for criminals.

And last...It's dead wrong to force peoples to not do what they want with what they "own"..You know, the government STILL need that the public continue to THINK that we have some kind of "private property" in this country, even if it's a lie. It keep the People happy and at home, not before the parliament.

We don't have right of property in this country..It was made VERY CLEAR when the first confiscations of firearms were made and dragged before the judges.

The provinces and Turdeau made damn sure it would'nt be included in the so-called Charter of Rights and Freedoms :roll: ..

It's not so much about guns, but rather about freedom :).
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Re: Canada: How National Parties show their true colours

Unread postby Snowrunner » Thu 11 Sep 2008, 00:01:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schneider', 'S')econd, you DON'T want to put everything at the range is because most of them are FAR away of anything, the response time are VERY LONG.

Third, it's a fantastic shopping mall for criminals.
Points taken.

Maybe we should allow gun ownership but stop selling bullets :P

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd last...It's dead wrong to force peoples to not do what they want with what they "own"..You know, the government STILL need that the public continue to THINK that we have some kind of "private property" in this country, even if it's a lie. It keep the People happy and at home, not before the parliament.

We don't have right of property in this country..It was made VERY CLEAR when the first confiscations of firearms were made and dragged before the judges.

The provinces and Turdeau made damn sure it would'nt be included in the so-called Charter of Rights and Freedoms :roll: ..


Well... This is an interesting question how this is handled, I admit I haven't looked that deeply into it, but I guess I should.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's not so much about guns, but rather about freedom :).


Now now, as much as (personal) Freedom is something we should all strive for, the reality is if you live in a society you give up some of that Freedom to gain other benefits. (But let's not veer off into something else entirely ;) If you want to talk about that, pm me / email me (username at gmail) and I am happy to oblige :D

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Canadian Election PM Hopeful Dion Melts Down In Interview

Unread postby deMolay » Thu 09 Oct 2008, 21:47:55

Americans complain about Obama or McKean look what we have running for the Prime Minister of Canada. Now this is embarrassing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv-5biChVrA
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Re: Canadian Election PM Hopeful Dion Melts Down In Intervie

Unread postby killJOY » Thu 09 Oct 2008, 22:01:25

Actually, I thought it was genuine and funny. I wish the US had a candidate so open about a misunderstanding.
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Re: Canadian Election PM Hopeful Dion Melts Down In Intervie

Unread postby Cashmere » Thu 09 Oct 2008, 22:19:22

1. The guy speaks 2 languages fluently, I only speak 1, so my respect to him for speaking in his non-native tongue.

2. He was asking a fair question. He wanted to know exactly when the hypothetical start to his PM would begin. The interviewer wasn't being particularly clear.

3. Totally cowardly for the TV station to air it.

4. Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun! He's got a knife!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Re: Canadian Election PM Hopeful Dion Melts Down In Intervie

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Thu 09 Oct 2008, 22:26:07

Yeah. We've got a person who want's to be vice president that can't name any newspapers. Y'all got nothing on that.

I agree. Trying to answer and vague question in another language, not the easiest thing. His big problem was his lack of BS. Palin would have taken that question and ended up talking about how much she loves Israel.
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Re: Canadian Election PM Hopeful Dion Melts Down In Intervie

Unread postby nero » Fri 10 Oct 2008, 04:33:10

The interviewer wasn't being very clear. He was mixing time frames and tenses. "If you were prime minister what would you have done today." I also think the interviewer altered slightly the question when he asked it a second time.

I'm not voting liberal but I think this is showing a genuineness about Dion that is quite appealing. It shows him laughing at himself.
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