[Buggy]

There will always be lights on somewhere. Electricity was available before the petroleum age and will be after. Now abundance based on location? That is a completely different poll.

[TheDude]

Cool graph, Tyler.

A microgrid could be maintained on small scale hydro most anywhere. Hydro has been used for centuries and the tech for simple electricity generation/distribution isn't that complex.

At the moment grids are wobbling all over the globe, of course. Read through the Olduvai thread. Or go over to Energy Shortage. Venezuela and Pakistan are dealing with rampant brownouts, the former a major oil exporter and the latter a nuclear power.

I brought up the situation in LA out of whimsy, in a way. Notice how much trouble it is to get things back on line even in the good ol' USA, after a Cat 2 landfall. Roads are clogged with utility trucks zooming around to work on lines and substations. That would be doubly troublesome with fuel being rationed.

[cube]

I guess it's time for me to hold an unpopular opinion.
The grid will be one of the last things to go down.
There are so many trivial things we can cut back on first like Starbucks coffee, HDTV, and regular trips to go see the dentist.

Why do people on this website keep on thinking the absolute most critical component that is necessary for our survival will be the first thing to go down? Wouldn't logic dictate that in a die-off scenario the trivial things should be let go first while whatever remaining diminishing financial resources should go to support super critical infrastructure?

[SILENTTODD]

This question has been asked before, and my answer is still the same. The Network, Electrical, and Telco will last as long as the literal armadas of maintenance trucks, vans, and tower trucks have fuel to roll. After that, not more than a year or less before stuff starts crashing. No more lights, no more cable, no more cell phone!

I work as a maintenance tester for AT&T in Southern California. Believe me; this stuff breaks down ALL the time. That’s why I have a job.

[zeke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', 'I')t depends on locale. The Pacific NW of the US and western Canada should be fine. The North East is questionable.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zeke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', 'I')t depends on locale. The Pacific NW of the US and western Canada should be fine. The North East is questionable.

[Iaato]

The lights are flickering across the pond, right on schedule for Olduvai.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')The crumbling state of Britain’s electricity network was exposed yesterday when power station breakdowns caused the first energy shortage of the autumn.

National Grid was forced to call for more power from electricity generators after a series of unexpected breakdowns left the company with an insufficient safety cushion....

Mr Brown said: “A low-carbon society will not emerge from business as usual. It will require new thinking and new technologies, new forms of economic activity and social organisation, new forms of consumer behaviour and lifestyles and your creativity, innovation and entrepreneurship to unlock the talents and skills of UK companies.”...."

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Consensi', '.')..what caused the rolling brownouts in California?

[zeke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '.')..a few strenuous environmental laws, an unseasonal hot summer, a dozen greedy traders, et voila, the perfect storm. Of course, the greedy traders from Energy Alley --aka Louisiana Street-- in Houston took all the blame.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zeke', 'I')'d encourage you to embrace as many strenuous environmental laws as possible...when the juice goes away, you're going to want something to drink other than your neighbor's and your own used crap water.

[zeke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zeke', 'I')'d encourage you to embrace as many strenuous environmental laws as possible...when the juice goes away, you're going to want something to drink other than your neighbor's and your own used crap water.

[outcast]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Consensi', '.')..what caused the rolling brownouts in California?

[DomusAlbion]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zeke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', 'I')t depends on locale. The Pacific NW of the US and western Canada should be fine. The North East is questionable.

[StuckInPhilly]

The NW power is a lot more reliable, too (I lived there most of my life).

There are more power outages in the east than I can count, they are fairly short lived most of the time but they are frequent.

[JustaGirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')
We have a lot of conservation options available to us before we have to start eating dinner by candle light in a freezing apartment.

[zeke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')
We have a lot of conservation options available to us before we have to start eating dinner by candle light in a freezing apartment.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', '.')..
It is mostly the massive hydroelectric infrastructure on the Columbia and Snake rivers (brought to us by the Feds, thank you very much America)

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'L')ets think about this for a minute and look at how much effort goes into the production of power. mine coal -> crush it -> transport it by railroad -> burn it -> boil water -> spin a turbine -> turn a generator -> send the electricity across 300 miles of transmission wires to my home. ALL of this is sold for only 10cents/kWh nationally. AMAZING CHEAP!!!

[MarkJ]

Most of the power outages in my region of the Northeast are due to winter storms (ice, wet snow, freezing rain, wind and accidents taking down lines, poles, trees and limbs)

Many people in the region (outside the cities) are mechanically inclined, self sufficient types that have efficient homes, alternative heat, light, propane, generators, inverters, chainsaws etc, so the short lived outages aren't a big deal. Downed trees and limbs equals free firewood.

When there's an extended power outage, we get flooded with calls from customers that don't realize their boilers, furnaces, water heaters, well pumps, pressure tanks etc need electricity to operate. Since they don't want their pipes to freeze, and don't want their basements to flood, they often head to Home Depot, Lowes, Tractor Supply and the hardware stores to buy generators. When they get back home, the power is often back on, or comes back on before they figure out how to plug in their sump pumps, water heaters, furnaces or boilers without back-feeding the grid, frying the electronics or zapping themselves.

Our New York state average for electric is around 17¢/Kwh, but we don't hear many people complaining since we don't use much electric in comparison to regions of the country with heavy A/C usage.

Overall, our power outages are few and generally short lived. The crews do a pretty good job of restoring power in a short period of time.

IMO, cheap electric just leads to more consumption. When we used to have cheap electric, our region was flooded with electric water heaters, electric baseboard heat, inefficient central A/C (plus window units) and inefficient appliances (washers, dryers, refrigerators, freezers, extra refrigerators/freezers etc)

[JustaGirl]

Good post MarkJ. I'm curious how you would vote. It seems like we do have a ton of fat to cut from the system. Today I went shopping and all the stores still had their air conditioners going full blast. It was only a high of 80 here today and it was around 70 when I went. You don't need AC for those temps!