[idiom]

So in the event of a prolonged contraction how does the US avoid defaulting on its debt or entitlement or both?

Is there a tidy way to transition to a not-growth assuming economic system?

[DantesPeak]

I'm in a video too that can now be found on You Tube. This was from a British television program in 2005 that may be best described as being on the fringe at that time.

The final product was impressively put together. It was mostly about Iraq war, and its effects on the US dollar and oil supplies.

I state there that the dollar was likely heading for an eventual collapse in the video.

Here's the link: link

Shortonoil's post further above very well explains the position we are in, and why we are headed into economic collapse. The collapse of the dollar is just a side effect of trying to maintain a fiat Fed dollar system during a credit and economic collapse. It's possible all fiat currencies may eventually loose their functional value, except those mostly backed by some type of asset - such as gold.

Anyway the most immediate effect of the credit collapse will be wild monetary debasement and attempts to expand the money supply. They may succeed at first as wealth is drained from those countries with a surplus of natural resources or manufacturing ability back to the US and Europe. Later on, exporting countries will withhold goods and resources, causing a more serous and sustained economic collapse.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'I') don't know why you want to barbecue us greenies. We are the ones who live practically debt free and were the prudent ones in this past 5 year fiesta of fools.
...

[cube]

BTW mainstream environmentalists M.E. are usually NOT prudent.
They tend to be very "consumerist" IMHO.

[Roccland]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DantesPeak', '
')
The final product was impressively put together. It was mostly about Iraq war, and its effects on the US dollar and oil supplies.

I state there that the dollar was likely heading for an eventual collapse in the video.

Here's the link: link

[Roccland]

Is that you Dante around minute 36? the mystery man?

or did you write this book?

[Revi]

Excellent and very scary video. The petrodollar seems to me to be one of the best rationales for the Iraq war. What a crazy thing to do anyway. It's a miracle it worked for so long. The Iraq war just bought us a couple more years of happy motoring. A couple more years of borrowing from our children's future.

[kdenninger]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('idiom', 'S')o in the event of a prolonged contraction how does the US avoid defaulting on its debt or entitlement or both?

Is there a tidy way to transition to a not-growth assuming economic system?

[Roccland]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kdenninger', ' ') There is nothing, once again, technically preventing flex-fuel CI engines; in fact, the military solved THAT problem in the 1960s and for some time had trucks that would run on any mixture of gasoline, jet, kerosene and #2.

[kdenninger]

Blah blah blah the world is coming to and end hide in the ground!

Ok dude. Do what you want.

But then... why are you here on a computer posting on the Internet? Shouldn't you be digging your bunker?

Oh, and if you're right, what good will gold do you? Can you eat it? Screw it? Heat with it? You think you can sell it? Uh, who needs it? Electronics and dental work are the only UTILITY values it has, and neither of those is going to be worth jack.

I don't buy the Mad Max scenario. Yeah, I know, its coming. That's what they said with Y2K too, and my power stayed on.

How about yours?

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kdenninger', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('idiom', 'S')o in the event of a prolonged contraction how does the US avoid defaulting on its debt or entitlement or both?

Is there a tidy way to transition to a not-growth assuming economic system?

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kdenninger', 'B')lah blah blah the world is coming to and end hide in the ground!

Ok dude. Do what you want.

But then... why are you here on a computer posting on the Internet? Shouldn't you be digging your bunker?

Oh, and if you're right, what good will gold do you? Can you eat it? Screw it? Heat with it? You think you can sell it? Uh, who needs it? Electronics and dental work are the only UTILITY values it has, and neither of those is going to be worth jack.

I don't buy the Mad Max scenario. Yeah, I know, its coming. That's what they said with Y2K too, and my power stayed on.

How about yours?

[cube]

To: kdenninger

I have serious issues with people who basically say, "If we remove part A from the system and replace it with part B then we can increase efficiency by X%.....wham bam just like that. Easy as pie."
*delicate cough*
The world does not work that way.
Every important decision that was ever made had to take into account a basket of different variables. It annoys me seriously when somebody steps in and *tries* to reduce a complex system with a dirty dozen different variables into a single dimensional variable and say, "see how easy that is.......I'm smarter then the engineers who designed the fracking system!"

Congratulations kdenninger you've just lost a massive amount of credibility in my eyes.
I am willing to give second chances, but as the old saying goes in life:
"....hard to gain, easy to lose...."

welcome to board

[Revi]

I think that cultures go down the same way they came up. We'll believe in some magic fix like nuclear (or should I say nuculur) or fusion, when the reality is that we are all going back to a village economy if we're lucky. We may never get the big fixes done because of diminishing horizons. We are broke, and the way to fix that is to stop spending money on things that don't work.

We could get back to an economy where we all live simply and make things to trade to eachother, if we were all willing to do that.

Most people are too interested in blaming "greenies" or trying to win the powerball or buying a wave runner to pay any attention to the idea of saving this society.

We're trying to make order out of chaos.

I like to pretend it's possible, but I'm not so sure.

[patience]

kdenninger,

I agree that there are any number of means that could improve our future energy situation, and I agree that as a nation we lack the political will to do much of anything. Which leaves me with personal responsibility to first secure my family's future as best I can, and second, to advocate for all possible improvements for the future.

From what I've seen of the results of US political will in hindsight and J6P's current mindset, I can't have much confidence in large scale mitigation efforts for our energy problems, any more than our financial problems. That doesn't look too good for the future. Solutions are of value only if they are put to use, right?

[Roccland]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
')Most people are too interested in blaming "greenies" or trying to win the powerball or buying a wave runner to pay any attention to the idea of saving this society.

[DantesPeak]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', 'I')s that you Dante around minute 36? the mystery man?

or did you write this book?

[shortonoil]

kdenninger wrote:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ost of the POers are in the "Mad Max" camp in one form or another. I strenuously disagree with that assessment.

[kdenninger]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', '[')b]kdenninger wrote:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ost of the POers are in the "Mad Max" camp in one form or another. I strenuously disagree with that assessment.

[AlexdeLarge]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '
')And BTW - I have two fully stocked bunkers in the ground and I am in the process of receiving title on a third ranch to bury a third bunker