PeakOil is You
THE Avian (Bird) Flu Thread Part 2 (merged)
Re: Planning for the avian flu pandemic.
by skyemoor » Tue 22 Jul 2008, 21:30:32
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 's')kyemoor, what's your conclusion about elderberry extract? I know you've studied H5N1 a lot. I decided it was worth using after the research I did. There was some concern that because it bolsters the immune system it might make H5N1 victims more prone to Cytokine storm, but based on everything I read I decided to risk that.
Having no medical training beyond first aid, it is beyond my skillset to prescribe a course of treatment for influenza. If Smallpoxgirl could weigh in, we could have a more substantive discussion.
I have found some interesting information regarding elderberry, and consider it within the realm of possibility with regards to addressing the treatment of influenza with my family. While there are only a few studies at this time, they give us something to go on, even if it is only a small empirical foothold.
There is quite a bit of guesswork by non-medical people who come to believe that since H5N1 raises cytokine levels, and so does elderberry, then elderberry must be the wrong treatment altogether. This completely ignores the range and variation of the myriad cytokines involved and whether the raising of some by elderberry extract has a particular immuno-suppressive feedback effect. A virologist would be the best person to ask, and one that has studied the matter at that.
Cytokine Overview from Cambridge (highly recommended)
The effect of Sambucol, a black elderberry-based, natural product, on the production of human cytokines: I. Inflammatory cytokines
European Cytokine Network. Vol 12, Number 2, 290-6, Jun 2001, Recherches
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ambucus nigra L. products – Sambucol – are based on a standardized black elderberry extract. They are natural remedies with antiviral properties, especially against different strains of influenza virus. Sambucol was shown to be effective in vitro against 10 strains of influenza virus. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized study, Sambucol reduced the duration of flu symptoms to 3-4 days. Convalescent phase serum showed a higher antibody level to influenza virus in the Sambucol group, than in the control group. The present study aimed to assess the effect of Sambucol products on the healthy immune system – namely, its effect on cytokine production. The production of inflammatory cytokines was tested using blood – derived monocytes from 12 healthy human donors. Adherent monocytes were separated from PBL and incubated with different Sambucol preparations i.e., Sambucol Elderberry Extract, Sambucol Black Elderberry Syrup, Sambucol Immune System and Sambucol for Kids. Production of inflammatory cytokines (IL-1b, TNF-a, IL-6, IL-8 ) was significantly increased, mostly by the Sambucol Black Elderberry Extract (2-45 fold), as compared to LPS, a known monocyte activator (3.6-10.7 fold). The most striking increase was noted in TNF-a production (44.9 fold). We conclude from this study that, in addition to its antiviral properties, Sambucol Elderberry Extract and its formulations activate the healthy immune system by increasing inflammatory cytokine production. Sambucol might therefore be beneficial to the immune system activation and in the inflammatory process in healthy individuals or in patients with various diseases. Sambucol could also have an immunoprotective or immunostimulatory effect when administered to cancer or AIDS patients, in conjunction with chemotherapeutic or other treatments. In view of the increasing popularity of botanical supplements, such studies and investigations in vitro, in vivo and in clinical trials need to be developed.
Alternative Medicine Review, March 2005
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Mechanisms of Action Antiviral:
While there are several mechanisms responsible for the beneficial effects of Sambucus nigra and extracts of its berries, perhaps the most important and best studied are the antiviral effects. Mumcuoglu, an Israeli virologist, was the first to discover elderberry constituents neutralize the activity of the hemagglutinin spikes found on the surface of several viruses. When these hemagglutinin spikes are deactivated the viruses can no longer pierce cell walls or enter the cell and replicate. (11)
The last is from Fluwikie, from one of the anonymous doctors posting there;
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he mode of Elderberry’s action is NOT primarily due to activation of citokines, nor is that a particularly strong side effect of Elderberry’s antiviral component. Elderberry contains a ribosomal inactivator which is chemically similar to that of Ricin (the deadly poison terrorists habitually try to manufacture). Ricin’s ribosomal inactivation affects all cells, indiscriminately, thereby killing the organism. However, elderberry’s anti-ribosomal enzyme is chemically distinct, in several minor variations, such that, unlike Ricin, it has no effect on the ribosomes of normal, noninfected, eukaryotic cells (normally functioning cells that make up multi-cellular organisms like us). Instead, it only inactivates ribosomes of cells that are actively infected by influenza and other RNA-type viruses, and which are being used to manufacturer new viral RNA particules. The reason for the specificity is extremely complex and not well understood by scientists. It evolved, no doubt, as a method by which the plant self-protects itself against plant viruses, many of which, like influenza, are based upon RNA. It is interesting to note that, just as St. John’s Wort is specific to the inactivation of DNA based viruses, and has no effect on influenza, elderberry is specific to RNA based viruses, and has no effect on DNA based viruses like human papilloma virus, and/or smallpox. As to its use against the new strains of avian influenza, if you are particularly worried about the minor citokine activation side effect, you can take curcumin (turmeric extract) at the same time. Curcumin dampens down citokine production. However, if taken at the first signs of influenza, before the virus has taken full hold, it is unlikely that the citokine stimulating side effects of Elderberry will cause significant morbidity in sick patients.
Based on how I've done much better with ridding myself of seasonal flus that my kids always bring home, I encouraged a local vintner to move forward with plans to make elderberry wine, and now he is also making an elderberry syrup (about 1/5 the cost of Sambucol and not watered down). I'm a fan of both the wine and the syrup, and have started raising my own plants in addition.
The Village Winery
info@villagewineryandvineyards.com
Disclaimer: I've come to be good friends with this vintner.
Last edited by skyemoor on Tue 22 Jul 2008, 21:50:01, edited 6 times in total.
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