[Lanthanide]

So your point is that 90 years ago, doctors didn't know much about vaccines and diseases and how to appropriately treat people, so they made bad vaccines that made a lot of people sick and/or dead.

So now vaccines are bad and doctors shouldn't be trusted?

[dukey]

oh no
vaccines are safe, in fact i might even go as far as to say they are GOOD for you.

[flash width=425 height=344]http://www.youtube.com/v/20IhxCzeuDU&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]

[Daphne64]

I seriously doubt the 1918-epidemic-by-vaccines theory. The flu travelled all over the world, and everywhere it was the same, a W shaped mortality rate (High for infants, lower for children, high for young adults, lower for middle aged folk, high for elderly).

Here's a link to an article about how the virus killed some test monkeys infected with a reconstructed virus.
http://www.physorg.com/news88262827.html
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')mportantly, the new work shows that infection with the virus prompted an immune response that seems to derail the body's typical reaction to viral infection and instead unleashes an attack by the immune system on the lungs. As immune cells attack the respiratory system, the lungs fill with fluid and victims, in essence, drown.

[Daphne64]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukey', 'o')h no
vaccines are safe, in fact i might even go as far as to say they are GOOD for you.

[Daphne64]

Found a reference to typhoid vaccines:
http://www.faqs.org/health/topics/22/Typhoid-fever.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')lmroth Edward Wright, an English physician, conducted research in blood coagulation and developed a vaccine against typhoid fever in 1889. The vaccine was effective when tested on soldiers during the Boer War. During World War I,British soldiers were the only ones vaccinated and their incidence of typhoid fever was greatly reduced. Wright went on to conduct important work in bacteriology and was knighted in 1906.

[Dezakin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukey', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he spanish flu killed predominatly healthy, well nourished young adults because it triggered cytokine storms.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukey', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he spanish flu killed predominatly healthy, well nourished young adults because it triggered cytokine storms.

[Golgo13]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukey', 'o')h no
vaccines are safe, in fact i might even go as far as to say they are GOOD for you.

[dukey]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Golgo13', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukey', 'o')h no
vaccines are safe, in fact i might even go as far as to say they are GOOD for you.

[Daphne64]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukey', 'I')t's amazing though. The TV says they have removed it, the FDA says otherwise. Who will Americans believe ? That's right, THE TV WINS AGAIN.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukey', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Golgo13', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukey', 'o')h no
vaccines are safe, in fact i might even go as far as to say they are GOOD for you.

[Dezakin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('drgoodword', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukey', 'H')IV/AIDS is a huge medical fraud

[Jupidu]

I read a bit in Wikipedia and some other articles about Spanish flu and cytokine storm.
"Cytokine storm" ist just another name for Anaphylaxis, it seems to be as if autoimmunity describes the same thing. I will clarify that tomorrow with a doctor.
You will have to be concerned with Anaphylaxis/Cytokine storm if you e.g. are very sensitive against bee stings or peanuts (butter).
A very little amount of the related substance and you eventually will suffocate because of your swollen muscles in your throat.

I never heard till friday that most of the people, who died because fo the Spanish flu, died because of a cytokine storm.
I found an article in a big german newspaper from January 2007 where this new fact is described.
I saw a documentary last year about an expedition to Iceland or Greenland. They wanted to exhume bodys of people buried down in permafrost and by chance discover a sign of the virus.
If i remember right there was no remark about destroyed lung tissue, like it is described in explanations of a cytokine storm/anaphylaxis.

At the beginning of the last century the "cytokine storm" was created in an experiment with dogs, which died after the second appliance of a fish poison. Then substances of the body oneself where discovered as to be the cause of this reaction (1909). One year later the substance was discovered: Histamine.

As a cytokine storm appears to be nothing else but a Anaphylaxis there should be no cause to be afraid of a influenza pandemic, at least if there is enough epinephrine (adrenaline) for acute measures and e.g. H1- or H2-antigonist for treatment in the early phase.
We just have to compare the medical standard and information possibilities with the same 70 years ago.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')uh, looks like a bunch of charletans to me. I dug around and found some stuff that was somewhat funny in a dark way:

Quote:
In 2007, aidstruth.org, a website run by HIV researchers to counter denialist claims,[42] published a partial list of AIDS denialists who had died of apparently AIDS-related causes. For example, the magazine Continuum, run by HIV-positive denialists, shut down when its editors all died of AIDS-related causes. In every case, the AIDS denialist community attributed the deaths to unknown causes, secret drug use, or stress rather than HIV/AIDS.

Whoopsie.

[lsu2001]

I think you need to do a little more research on the cytokine storm. While it is true that it is similar to anaphalaxis, a simple epipen shot will not fix it. I went through a cytokine storm only a few months ago with my mother. She had a case of the flu with a follow on bacterial infection. She was treated with massive doses of anti-inflammatory medication and antibiotics but the end result was that all they could really do was to provide ventilation and fever control while they waited for the body to either survive the storm or give out. Luckily she won out and after 6 weeks in ICU she was able to recover.

In 1918 it was the cytokine storm that created many of the deaths in seemingly healthy young people, there is some speculation that bacterial infections also caused many deaths. Today one of the leading bacterial infections that follow flu is Staphlococcus aureus pneumonia. also of note is that there is a trend of these infections involving antibiotic resistant strains.

The reason a pandemic is so daunting is because the medical system would be quickly overwhelmed and the supportive care needed would not be available. Think about it, the spanish flu killed millions of people worldwide over about an 18 month period. IF we had the numbers of sick and dying today our hospitals could not cope. I suggest you visit www.planforpandemic.com or the centers for disease control for more info.

JMHO,
Tim

[CRACKERMAN]

New classified documents have recently been located that prove that aids was created by Israelie scientists back in 1959. Reseach was performed on Ethiopian patients who at the time were making up half of the bacteremias studies being performed co-jointly with the US CDC.

This is one heck of an eye opener: link

[startswithearthquakes]

What a pile of crap.

[AlexdeLarge]

Crackerman? LOL Come on now ....if you are going to be a bigot, you can come up with a better nom de plume than that!

[Tyler_JC]

I'm laughing my ass off right now.

I bookmarked the page. Damn...that's funny.

[Micki]

Aaaargh. I was just "ricked"

[Fishman]

Crackerman
Just in the short part you placed on your thread you disprove your comments. 1)Antibody studies place HIV prior to 1959.
2)Ethiopians were not the first group to have HIV, nor have the highest rates at present.
3)You don't have bacteremia with HIV per say, its a virus, not a bacteria.
Perhaps you could get this by a large group of idiots, or some conspiracy nuts that aren't willing to do any fact checks, but not here.