[XLMike]

I am worried about the future.

Am I worried about life after peak oil? No.
Am I worried about life after the economic collpse? No.

What I am worried about is the suddeness and completeness of the collapse. Although I realize the implications and human suffering invovled, I want a very sudden and very complete collapse of glogal civilization. You might say, are you crazy? Do you know what would happen? I might be crazy, and I think I do know what would happen. But, this is the only way that I can think of to not end up in some Orwellian nightmare with TPTB controlling all aspects of everyday life. I'm not talking about any conspiracy theories. I'm just talking about any form of government using a slow collapse to erode human rights even further than they already have been in order to "save us" I think most people can see this as a very possible outcome of a "long emergency".

I want everything to fall apart completely. A push of the reset button for humanity. Does this mean substantial die-off? yes. Does this mean loosing a lot of the benefits of technology? yes. I think it's worth it just so that we don't have "A brave new world". I don't think that humanity should survive in such a senario. what's the point.

I am worried because I have a feeling that this is exactly what is going to happen.

Thoughts?

[Cloud9]

Worry is the continual reviewal of undesirable possibilities. Most of what we worry about never happens. Take a breath, back up and take a look at your surroundings. Generally it is an supreme ego trip to imagine the federal government wants anything we have except our obedience and our taxes.

[Ferretlover]

Welcome to the Dark Side, XLMike.

[BigTex]

If it's any consolation the scenario you describe has never happened before.

We've had world wars, depressions, nuclear bombs, global flu pandemics, famines...there has never been an overnight collapse of civilization that you fear.

The best way of thinking about our modern world, to me, is like an old bum that no matter how much he abuses himself just seems to linger and linger and linger.

[CarlinsDarlin]

My grandmother used to say:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')orrying is like sitting in a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere.

[zberry]

Listen to Jason Bradford's interview with David Holmgren.
Holmgren is a pioneer in the permaculture movement. He makes a compelling case that gradual "energy descent" is a more likely scenario for the future than sudden collapse.
He admits there is a possibility of sudden collapse, but thinks the energy descent is more likely and is the type of "collapse" that seems to occur in history, a la the descent of Rome. This is part 1. Part 2 will be coming along later on Bradford's show and will no doubt be posted on global public media.
But by all means, start preparing and powering down now. Just don't get paralyzed by the fear. Do one little thing at a time.
David Holmgren Interview with Jason Bradford, Pt. 1

[TreeFarmer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', ' ')Generally it is an supreme ego trip to imagine the federal government wants anything we have except our obedience and our taxes.

[DomusAlbion]

You won't get your wish for a quick and complete collapse.

It will be gradual and, at least at first, it will be controlled and discomforting.

Then it will get worse.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', ' ')Pay your taxes and do as your told.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', ' ')Pay your taxes and do as your told.

[killJOY]

You want agita?

Become a farmer.

You learn that everything succumbs to rot, weeds, insects, and vermin.

Such a life means wresting sustenance from certain failure.

But you can't predict just exactly when or by how much.

So, welcome.

[anarky321]

sudden collapse is the romantic dream of anarchists, but most people dont want it thus it will not occur (unless there is some crazy catastrophe that wipes out a large chunk of the population, even then i wouldnt be too optimistic (look at the black plague period of europe...that was about as close to collapse as we came in recent history imo)

the orwelian nightmare that you are so terrified of (why? just move to a country where the government is too weak to enforce such a lifestyle) is a much more likely outcome

with cheap energy people have been afforded unheard-of levels of freedom, and most of them are not aware that this is not the natural state of events; as energy scarcity becomes more apparent more laws and limitations will be put in place to maintain society, and the majority of the people will be happy to play along

collapse scares most people; they like security and civilization, period

[coyote]

Either you can do something about the situation... in which case there is no need to worry;

Or:

You cannot do anything about it...

in which case there is no need to worry.

[green_achers]

It doesn't matter what you would like. It's going to be what it's going to be, so best be ready for anything.

[DrillBites]

While it is easy to see that the coming crisis will have its roots in oil depletion, it is my opinion that our society will suffer a series of catastrophic collapse’s based on a lack of food. Due to the combined problems of over population, failing farm land, unsustainable practices, skyrocketing costs, bio-ethanol production, and total dependence on oil for farming and transportation, human culture will run out of food much sooner than oil. This year has already seen food riots in many countries and these will only spread as problems multiply.
When the pressures of economic decline, food scarcity, and soaring energy costs become life threatening to the poor of any population group social disruption is the only possible outcome. Food riots, as already seen in many countries this year will become quiet common place . As these riots spread it will interrupt the flow of commerce into urban areas, and this interruption will only serve to increase the pressures on the population. Any people able to flee the rioting areas will do so and this will cause a collapse of the supply of goods and services into cities, as well as increasing pressures in non-urban areas. This will have an increasing ripple effect in every city where these problems begin.
These problems have already started outside the U.S. and Europe, in the oppressive oil producing nations and third world nations with huge populations of poor. As these problems continue to spread through the populations, terminal disruptions of the worldwide economic and energy profiles are only a matter of time.
Keeping these considerations in mind I feel that it is best to prepare for a catastrophic collapse in our society. If one is prepared for a worst case scenario, then anything less just means that you are somewhere between very well prepared and totally paranoid. If one studies recent history of urban conflicts and the way populations respond then excessive preparations for the future seem the wisest course of action.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DrillBites', ' ') Any people able to flee the rioting areas will do so and this will cause a collapse of the supply of goods and services into cities, as well as increasing pressures in non-urban areas.

[XLMike]

Thank you all for your input, you all have good points.

I think that food scarcity / cost is defenitely going to be the first major effect of a collapse. I don't hear about anybody stockpiling oil, they stockpile food. As to masses of hungry urbanites wandering the county side. I think that Huricane Katrina shows what really happens in a sudden collapse. A gradual collapse will just make rural property prices out of reach of most people. I wonder if rural property prices are falling at the same rate as urban property?

I guess ultimately my worrying won't do me any good and I'll just have to carry on with my plan. The best thing is that even if I knew nothing of PO I would still want to do what I'm doing.

[DrillBites]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DrillBites', ' ') Any people able to flee the rioting areas will do so and this will cause a collapse of the supply of goods and services into cities, as well as increasing pressures in non-urban areas.

[kpeavey]

In a situation where fuel is unavailable, the means of fleeing becomes an obstacle to overcome. I'd expect a parade of refugees with shopping carts and wheelbarrels.