[seahorse2]

Long story short - I'm on the list as "Armed and Dangerous." Think I'm kidding? I wish I were. Why am I on the list? I can tell you what they told me. But first, how I found out.

I recently returned from Cancun, Mexico with the family on vacation. Coming back into the US, I was stopped at customs and told they needed to talk to me. So, I go to a downstairs room to talk (with my wife and 3 young kids). To give you an idea of what it "feels" like to be talked to, my 8 year old girl was crying.

They asked if I had ever been talked to by the ATF. I said no. They asked if I owned any guns. I said yes. They asked if I ever had a gun lost of stolen. I said no.

I then asked what this was all about. They said the NY ATF reported recovering a gun from a crime scene registered to me. I said that was news to me and asked me when, what the crime was, and what the gun was. They said it was reported in March of 07, didn't know the crime or gun involved. I pointed out to the officer that that story didn't make any sense. He wanted to know why. I showed him my concealed handgun permit which was renewed in Jan of 08, almost one year after I was supposedly listed as armed and dangerous by the ATF. Why then, would I pass a new background check and have my firearms license renewed. The border agent acknowledged that didn't make any sense. Said we could go on into the country and advised me to contact the ATF and try to get this cleared up.

I have contacted my local police to try and get this cleared up. So far, the NY ATF agent hasn't responded. Its been 3 weeks now. Supposedly, the ATF agent we need to get in touch with in on medical leave. I will keep everyone posted. I also learned that I'm not only listed as armed and dangerous, but as a "Category 1" which apparently means they considered me as potentially dangerous as an arab carrying a suitcase nuke.

I could give you my lessons learned, but am too tired to type anymore right now. All this to say that I hope all these conspiracist beliefs in "roundups" and "Rex 84" etc are just b.s., because I'm definitely on the list.

This incident also doesn't give me much faith in our Homeland Security, in that they consider me armed and dangerous, yet have never even called me on the phone to inquire? Come on, they had my phone number, current address, everything in their system.

I guess my 12 years service as a paratrooper doesn't mean much? The fact I've never been charged or arrested with a crime? And they think I'm armed and dangerous? However, keep in mind that being armed and dangerous is not a crime. It means you have a concealed handgun permit. In this instance, I believe my permit was persuasive evidence that something in the system wasn't right. Because something isn't right. But, that's little comfort when you are facing McCarthy.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse2', 'L')ong story short:

...doesn't give me much faith in our Homeland Security, in that they consider me armed and dangerous, yet have never even called me on the phone to inquire? Come on, they had my phone number, current address, everything in their system...

[BigTex]

If they recovered a gun that belonged to you, it seems like they should have returned it to you.

If they thought you were involved, you're right to point out that they could have called you up and just asked.

OTOH, if someone used your identity to obtain a weapon used in a crime, it seems like the authorities ought to be investigating the identity theft.

The system often reminds me of a stupid lazy dog--if you run from it it will chase you all day long, even if it doesn't know why you are running. OTOH, if you try to get the dog to bark at or bite a bad guy, the dog will look at you like "it's my nap time."

I witnessed a hit and run one time and called 911 and gave a description of the car, the license plate, and a description of the driver. I asked if they had a car in the area that might be able to catch him before he got too far away and the dispatcher told me she would have an officer call me back in the next couple of days. When I got a call back a few hours later I asked what the police were doing with the information I gave them. "Sir", he said, "there's really not much we can do." I suggested maybe they could go to the house of the person whose name the car is registered in and ask them if they had been driving it when it destroyed the car in front of it. He said "but sir, we wouldn't have any way of knowing who was driving the car." I told him that if he asked the owner the owner might either tell who was driving it that night or admit to the crime himself. Surely it was worth doing some minimal level of investigation, I thought, but the officer assured me that they would follow their procedures and he appreciated me reporting the incident.

[killJOY]

Plot to pacify public proceeding as planned.

Contemptuously comatose countrymen to be committed soon to concentration camps.


(Alliteration and assonance advance administrative atmosphere.)

[steam_cannon]

Perhaps our Expert tags have a more sinister meaning...

But all conspiracy thoughts aside, get a lawyers opinion on this and best of luck...

[seahorse]

I am a lawyer, but there is an old saying among lawyers that a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. So, thankfully, my dad and brother are both lawyers.

[Muckingfess]

Possibly everyone that has a concealed carry permit is on the list. When you apply for the CCP they have their database started. Maybe their database is just made up of permit holders and people that have registered their weapons. When TSHTF they will come to you (us)first, then with an unarmed populace, have their way with us.

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')The system often reminds me of a stupid lazy dog--if you run from it it will chase you all day long, even if it doesn't know why you are running. OTOH, if you try to get the dog to bark at or bite a bad guy, the dog will look at you like "it's my nap time."

[midnight-gamer]

Keep us updated about this problem. It must be scary for you and your family.
I think I am as afraid of the government as I am criminals, and I am a law abiding citizen.

[jupiters_release]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse2', 'L')ong story short:

...doesn't give me much faith in our Homeland Security, in that they consider me armed and dangerous, yet have never even called me on the phone to inquire? Come on, they had my phone number, current address, everything in their system...

[3aidlillahi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') think I am as afraid of the government as I am criminals, and I am a law abiding citizen.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')essen learned. Don't involve the cops. Arm and protect yourself. Under NO circumstances register your guns. Registration just guarantees a visit from the man on a day you don't want to see him. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', 'P')erhaps our Expert tags have a more sinister meaning...

[dukey]

SeaHorse, if you have a gun, you are a threat to the power monopoly of the state. Don't think they wont try and take you down.

The ATF is a corrupt organisation.. just take Waco were they were running around with tanks killing those guys in the church. Then they set fire and burnt it to the ground ... with the poor bastards still inside.

[TheDude]

Maybe they're after you for having multiple accounts here?

Assume you'll just stay home from now on. You could watch Red Dawn. Or Armed and Dangerous.

Actually enforcement at whatever level probably doesn't put much more thought into its behavior than the rent-a-cops in A&D. They just have a quota of people they're pressed to f0ck with on a regular schedule.

The WP troops in the former movie, that's what I'm worried about. They have a lot more to work with now than Form 4473, as they proved in NOLA.

Seriously, check out A&D for some cheap laughs. Sounds like you could use 'em. "You're entering a $12 billion dollar a year industry." "Excuse me, let me see if I have this right. If you pay me $4/hour, and I work for 3 billion hours..."

[AlexdeLarge]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'U')tterly incompetent government wonks screwing things up royally, having a difficult time doing anything right.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'U')nder NO circumstances register your guns. Registration just guarantees a visit from the man on a day you don't want to see him. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!

[dunewalker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '
')What kind of gun can you buy without registering? A bi-bi gun? Hunting shotgun? I mean, sure, its great to have an unregistered arsenal in the woods but what unregistred firearm can you have at home legally? An arquebuse?

[Jotapay]

I have had a CHL in Texas since the spring of 2007. I had a Curio and Relic Federal Firearms License from 2001 through 2004. I also have bought several firearms and completed the FBI background check each time.

So the state and federal government, as well as the FBI and ATF, know all about me, many times over. I make it a point now to live an incredibly squeaky clean life (although I was very rambunctious in my early 20s when I traveled the world and partied quite a bit in endless hedonism, experimentation and debauchery). I don't speed, park illegally, or even download pirated music off the internet these days. You never know, so I play it safe.

I went to Europe in January of '08 with my girlfriend. I was fully expecting to be pulled out of line all the time, especially during immigration coming back into the USA. Mainly because of my firearm collecting hobby and licenses which will pull multiple hits in their databases. I sailed through. No one batted an eye, but I'm sure my whole federal file was visible to everyone where my drivers license or passport was scanned. I have been out of the country four times since 2000. I sailed through customs every time.

With all the databases which they have at their disposal now, and the stories about how they are (mis)using the data, I have expected to be at least questioned, but it has never happened, as I said.

I think you have been flagged for some reason as the result of a flaw in their algorithm (or algorithm design) for handling these things. I'm sure this happens to many people besides yourself. I have dealt with the ATF and FBI before during background checks and procuring licenses, and I can tell you that trying to get a live person on the phone who knows how to help you with your situation is virtually impossible. I think it would be easier to put a call through to dead relatives in heaven. So if you decided to pursue this to clear up the issue, I have no evidence to show you which leads me to think you will be successful, only that you will waste a lot of time making endless phone calls to the MD/VA/DC area.

Sorry to hear about that. I hope it works out, but there are several ways to play this out. One is to attempt to fight the bureaucracy, and the other is to dodge it, using your head instead.

edit: One successful method of communication with the ATF, which I just remembered, is writing a letter. I have seen many letters written to the ATF and their responses. It seems that all letters eventually get a response. If your phone calls get you nowhere, try writing a letter and I predict it will have better success.

[Blacksmith]

Is medical leave the same as stress leave?