[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', ' ')carrying capacity 'trumps' it the way any hard brutal fact like, say, gravity 'trumps' ethics. however, that doesn't mean that allowing people to fall to their death is ethical. in this example i can in no way appeal to gravity as the basis of any 'good'.

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Carrying capacity must always trump morals or ethics.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlterEgo', 'H')ow do we stop all-out treatment of individuals who cannot be saved;

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlterEgo', 'H')ow do we stop all-out treatment of individuals who cannot be saved;

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '.')..it appeared to be accepted by the tribe that [leaving people behind] wasn't cruel, though I'm sure it would seem so to us.

[AlterEgo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'I') remember watching an episode of The Ascent of Man, I think it was the episode "The Harvest of the Seasons". In that episode it explored the culture of a nomad tribe of people called something like "the baktiari". It was a dour existence, from my perspective, and they needed to keep moving frequently, including crossing some difficult terrain. When someone was unable to make a particular crossing, through frailty, then they got left behind, since they had to travel light and had no spare capacity to carry someone who could not make it themselves. It appeared to be accepted by the tribe that this wasn't cruel, though I'm sure it would seem so to us.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', 'E')veryone has their time to die whether in a mountain pass that has gotten beyond our physical capability or choking out the last breath in a god-forsaken nursing home or in a hospital ward with monitors ensuring your time of death, last breath and last heartbeat is recorded.

[Jenab6]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')This is what you become when you place nature above all morals and ethics which conflict with that concept.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')This is what you become when you place nature above all morals and ethics which conflict with that concept.

[AlterEgo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', 'T')he moral course of action for a people is that which secures the greatest good or, conversely, avoids the worst loss.

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', '
')Like Thomas Jefferson said, "The law of self preservation is higher than the written law."

[MrBean]

"Ethics" comes from the Greek word "ethos" meaning customs, local customs of a community, just like the Latin word "mores". An ethical man follows the local customs best suited for the local environment.

Hence, any attempt to develop universal ethics and then proceeding to forcing everybody to follow the customs of "universal ethics" is allready unethical.

[Ludi]

bumpola

[AlterEgo]

Nate Hagens and Jason Bradford on the Maximum Power Principle

Listen to the last 8 minutes or so for a really clear explanation of the MPP by Bradford. It is the tradeoff between energy use and efficiency that keeps us from powering down.

[yesplease]

Um, yeah, comparing biological systems and human social systems always works.

[AlterEgo]

Uh, humans are not part of a biological system, yes please?

[yesplease]

Props on the strawman!
Gravity is part of the universe, as is electromagnetism, but just because it's a part of it does not mean that the behavior of gravity is good for descibing the behavior of electromagnetism. Similarly, humans are part of a biological system, as are plants moving into a new area, but the behavior of plants in this case is not the same as the behavior of humans wrt energy.

[AlterEgo]

Basic thermodynamics are the same whether they are impacting plants or animals or economies, yesplease. Are you suggesting that the laws of thermodynamics change depending on the species?

[Peleg]

I think we can funk this thing up by calling it 'Power Way Down'

The funk guitar comes in.

Whaccuum whackoo whikaaay tickaa whacka

'Yeah bro. You gotta let that oil go. It ain't no good fo u so(ul)'

Whaaa whicki whacka ticka whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Sponsored by the Alliance for a Better Tomorrow]

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlterEgo', 'B')asic thermodynamics are the same whether they are impacting plants or animals or economies, yesplease. Are you suggesting that the laws of thermodynamics change depending on the species?