[bruin]

Texas is planning some insanely large highway system, mostly funded by private money. This thing has no chance of being
useful in the face of PO: Super Highways
What will it take for us to stop building roads? Part of the New Deal was to build more crap. If society never gets PO figured out, the next New Deal after PO is going to be a seriously flawed program.

[stu]

Until mass realization of PO occurs then it is going to be a case of "business as usual".

[Jack]

Easter Island, Part II.

The Easter Islanders were working on building their statues until, suddenly, they quit. Statues were left in every stage of completion, with tools set down beside them.

I suspect our highway projects will be exactly the same.

[maverickdoc]

China was about do the same think only bigger. Then abruptly few days ago they said they would not. I posted a thread on that

[Dvanharn]

Monte may know more about this, but such a highway would, without wildlife underpasses, completely block animal migration. (I assume that the interstates and other major freeways already do this.)

Plant communities can migrate via seeds, and this is already happening due to global warming. However, animals (except birds, bats, and flying insects) cannot follow the movement of the ecosystems that they depend on for survival due to the barriers formed by freeways and similar roads. Perhaps reduced highway traffic after peak oil hits will jelp mitigate the problem after the earth-firsters breach the chain link fences.

Dave

[Wildwell]

I was of the impression that depending on the road, animal migration patterns were taken into account. This was certainly done with the London-Paris high speed railroad line.

http://www.ctrl.co.uk/ecology/ecology.asp?L=5&SL=18

http://www.ctrl.co.uk/ecology/default.asp?L=5

and the Birmingham Toll motorway

http://www.instaffs.co.uk/Documents/Folder.pdf

Although the new road created more pollution and congestion in the end, as predicted: Toll bosses

[crude_intentions]

U.S. Infrastructure Deteriorating, Report Finds
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')If we treated our own homes like we treat our infrastructure, we'd all live in shacks," said ASCE president William Henry.

[SD_Scott]

I guess "D" stands for decline.

[Egon_1]

Once we really start to enter the arc of decline, we won't need highways.

[0mar]

1.6 trillion! HAH! Where's the money coming from buddy?

[ECM]

The U.S. is rated F, failed society, for education affordability. It is no surprise that so many other needed systems are left to rot.

[BabyPeanut]

ibid $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')The country's power transmission system also needed to be modernized, the report said. While demand continued to rise, transmission capacity failed to keep pace and actually fell by 2 percent in 2001.

[ubercynicmeister]

The stupid Economic Rationalists have screwed Australia's infrastructure as well - power outages are now common in one of our states, (Queensland) where the entire state gets blacked out. Oddly, this never seems to make the news, other than at the local level...
In New South Wales, the state where I live, the rumour has been doing the rounds (and I beleive it) the Electricity Industry Executives have all bought large diesel-powered generators, knowing full well the grid is about to collapse.
The trillions needed to fix said power grid (various prices are given) would bank-rupt the government, and private industry is (after robbing the place blind) backing away with their hands in the air, saying it's "none of their business".

Our railways are stuffed, too, thanks to decades of neglect, our road projects are a waste of time, mostly concentrated on the capital cities, (LOL, and when Peak Oil hits, I wonder what we'll actually USE them for?) connecting wastelends of concrete to wastelands of McMansions.
Our water supplies (except for the Hunter Region, where I live, luckily) are on their last legs, once again, because they have failed to invest (or rather RE-invest) in the water-supply infrastructure - so we're gonna have the Aussie version of The Perfect Triple Storm:

Electricity dies; just as
Oil Peaks; just as
We run out of water.
And then the brown smelly stuff REALLY hits the fan!
Woohoo, what FUN! (not)

[pea-jay]

The more I think about this, the more I think our infrastructure (like everything else was a one-shot deal) We thought it up, we put it in and forgot about it. Somebody else's problem.
Another case in point: our local electrical distribution systems. Since the late sixties/early seventies most utilities (it's law in California) have undergrounded their lines. Unfortunately a fair amount of the product they used had a useable lifespan of 30 years. I found this out by talking to one of the local utility workers. More recent technology can last up to 50 years. Then it will have to be replaced. With powerlines, its easy, just pull the wire out and replace. Not so easy with underground utilities. Out of site, out of mind until it fails.
Just like every other infrastructure element, service is required. How in the world can that be fixed? My guess is nobody thought that one out. Someone elses problem.
Thanks guys... your problems are starting to show up now

[NevadaGhosts]

Engineers' report card covers 12 categories, sees decline vs. 2001
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')rowded schools, traffic-choked roads and transit cutbacks are eroding the quality of American life, according to an analysis by civil engineers that gave the nation’s infrastructure an overall grade of D.

[HonestPessimist]

Look around your hometown. Look around the roads and highways leading up to and from your hometown. Look around how people get to and from the roads/highways in order to go through your hometown or around. Look around how developments impact your hometown and beyond. Look at how many communities and small towns located around your hometown, even in farther distance. Look at how many stores, fast food restaurants, offices, service places, housings, apartments, gas stations, constructions, etc. all over your hometown and beyond. Look how people get to and from those places on a daily, even hourly basis with their vehicles of all kinds.
Tell me what all that is called?

I say the living infrastructure. All of that depends on the daily consumption of oil/gas because people need to get around from point A to point B and so on (or back to point A) with their vehicles.
There are urban sprawling all over the US, Canada, Mexico and the rest of the world due to the rising populations and the demands that are placed upon nations to meet expectations. There have been rapid developments of retail, office, housing and service buildings on undeveloped lands or razed properties sold for profits.
Which mean people still need to get around with their vehicles. People driving to and from grocery or retail stores, gas stations, service places, offices and so on. Companies hauling stuff around on trucks, vans or tractor-trailers. Service companies making deliveries or landscaping. Construction companies using dump trucks to remove pile-high soils and huge equipments to construct or move something heavy.

All of these mean a great deal of consumption of oil/gas on an hourly basis in the face of peak oil situations and rising costs of oil/gas in the future.
The whole current living infrastructure is wrong and wrong-headed. The current living infrastructure need massive re-engineering and redevelopment of the society so to ensure the reduction of oil/gas demands and avoid needless conflicts in the future.
Urban sprawling would have to be stopped because it is already worsening and endangering the communities/small towns to the point of irreversible development and encouraging high consumption of oil/gas involved. Retail, housing and office developments would have to be stopped because it would spur more traveling and getting around to by people in their vehicles. There are so many retail and office spaces empty in the new developments after a couple years. There are too many housing and apartments too far from retail/office areas, some people cannot afford to live in high-valued housing areas nearing retail/office or parks. Public transit or transportation services are being affected or hampered by budget cuts and people would have to wait longer for buses or subways (or hopping into 2 different bus/subway routes just to get to and from work).

There are too many service-oriented or construction-oriented vehicles on the roads. There are too many tractor-trailers hauling stuff from warehouse to store to store to store and back to warehouse, day in and day out. There are too many landscaping services, there are too many delivery services, there are too many home-repair or installation services, there are too many competitions as well.
There are too many retail and office/service places that people have to travel to get there and back home with their own vehicles. For many, a great shopping destination like the mall is the main consumer attraction and is worth driving there. For some, it seem like a chore. For few, it's too far but worth traveling to.
Not that all people are lazy but they aren't crazy about traveling by walking or riding their bikes to the main consumer attractions or grocery stores in any weather few miles away. Imagine thousands of people travels by walking or biking in a freezing snowy weather toward a Walmart, buying stuff and haul 'em all back home. Dragging their children along is another matter in this.

There are young people driving their accessorized or used cars around. There are people who like to travel about town in their vehicles just because they're bored and wanted to do something, whatever that is. There are people who are driving too fast, stopping too fast and repeat while cruising around. There are people who have too much stuff in their vehicles they've never bother to take or clean them out. There are people who wanted to go to this place, that place, this place, that place with many stops along the way.
The whole current living infrastructure is being depended by people with their vehicles but often mean a great deal of consumption of oil/gas on an hourly basis.
It's time to look around you and your hometown and do some serious re-thinking and re-assessment of the living infrastructure. It is going to have to be less and less dependent on oil/gas.

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HonestPessimist', 'T')he current living infrastructure needs massive re-engineering and redevelopment of the society so to ensure the reduction of oil/gas demands and avoid needless conflicts in the future.

[MicroHydro]

Living infrastructure will change by necessity, but not by foresight. Also, re-engineering the suburbs now is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Too little, too late.
The "Limits to Growth" authors published in the 30 year follow up that if sustainable practices (including zero population growth) had been adopted in 1982 - a decade after their first book - we would be living in a sustainable world now. But it was business as usual, and here we are.
The world has been in overshoot for 15 years, some sort of crash is inevitable.

[HonestPessimist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('albente', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HonestPessimist', 'T')he current living infrastructure needs massive re-engineering and redevelopment of the society so to ensure the reduction of oil/gas demands and avoid needless conflicts in the future.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here are too many service-oriented or construction-oriented vehicles on the roads. There are too many tractor-trailers hauling stuff from warehouse to store to store to store and back to warehouse, day in and day out. There are too many landscaping services, there are too many delivery services, there are too many home-repair or installation services, there are too many competitions as well.