by smallpoxgirl » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 10:44:59
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlCzervik', 'Y')ou rip what you perceive to be a conspiracy/fringe element of this board a lot, yet here you are freaking out about the jackboots. Ha.
I rip the conspiracy fringe element a lot because they live in Narnia. There are enough real, actual, documentable things to be worried about without making up stories. Cointelpro isn't some myth that someone made up because they needed something to worry about. Cointelpro was a real program. It was documented. Lots of real people died because of it. Congress chastised the FBI about it at the Church Comittee hearings. A lot of people that I know that are in their 50's really had their lives shaped by Cointelpro. What I don't like is people that use the existence of real documentable conspiracies to try to turn the real world into a James Bond adventure. Assuming everything is a conspiracy and loosing connection to the real world is just as self defeating as assuming there are no conspiracies and Fox News is truth. People can't live with the greyness of the world. The truth is that a lot of the conspiratorial stuff is interesting, but is mostly conjecture. People want to either decide it's all phony and the government is our friend or that it's all true and there is an army of jack boots around every corner ready to tote us off to a concentration camp.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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by smallpoxgirl » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 10:50:31
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedStateGreen', 'T')his is really true. I have both military and police friends (one who used to be LAPD SWAT but lives in TN now), and they're overall very nice people, with kids and families.
How you seen the old news reals from the 30's? Germans said the same exact thing about the SS. Yeah. I know. She's using the Hitler card, but it's not like people can't lead dual lives. People who do horrible things in service to an ideology almost always go home at night to play with their dog and hug their kids. Lots of them even coach little league in their spare time. That doesn't mean they're not pulling people's fingernails out during the day.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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smallpoxgirl
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by vetusfirma » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 11:02:19
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'T')hus, instead of saying "I don't talk to PIGS!" and slamming the door, it might be better to say "Gentlemen, I appreciate you coming by today, and I would like to talk to you, but would it be possible to re-schedule this meeting at my attorney's office for later today or tomorrow?"
See the difference?
How about "I'm going to remain silent and if you don't have a warrant, I would like you to leave my property."
Cops in general, and male cops in particular, tend to be Type A personalities, and anything that could be perceived as a challenge to them or their authority is typically not a good idea if there is a less confrontational approach available, no matter how right you are.
Thus, even if you are perfectly justified in remaining silent and telling them to leave unless they have a warrant, being friendly and reasonably cooperative may still be a better approach.
You have to visualize the cop's desk. It's full of cases he can be working on. The cases at the top of the stack, though, are going to be the people who pissed him off or disrespected him.
I've seen it both ways and done it both ways, and the last thing you want to be is the "project" of someone inside the system.
where is the compassion tex, I you were a demented bureaucrat that loved to get even with trouble makers. Yea, I know, that was in a 'past life' and you have repented an been forgiven. Isn't this all meaningless, in the long now.
by BigTex » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 11:32:30
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vetusfirma', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'T')hus, instead of saying "I don't talk to PIGS!" and slamming the door, it might be better to say "Gentlemen, I appreciate you coming by today, and I would like to talk to you, but would it be possible to re-schedule this meeting at my attorney's office for later today or tomorrow?"
See the difference?
How about "I'm going to remain silent and if you don't have a warrant, I would like you to leave my property."
Cops in general, and male cops in particular, tend to be Type A personalities, and anything that could be perceived as a challenge to them or their authority is typically not a good idea if there is a less confrontational approach available, no matter how right you are.
Thus, even if you are perfectly justified in remaining silent and telling them to leave unless they have a warrant, being friendly and reasonably cooperative may still be a better approach.
You have to visualize the cop's desk. It's full of cases he can be working on. The cases at the top of the stack, though, are going to be the people who pissed him off or disrespected him.
I've seen it both ways and done it both ways, and the last thing you want to be is the "project" of someone inside the system.
where is the compassion tex, I you were a demented bureaucrat that loved to get even with trouble makers. Yea, I know, that was in a 'past life' and you have repented an been forgiven. Isn't this all meaningless, in the long now.
by Dreamtwister » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 13:32:54
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'U')nless they decide it's in the interest of "national security", in which case you have the right to remain silent until you can no longer stand the pain of having your fingernails ripped out with pliers.
Littering isn't really a matter of "national security"
It can be, considering how broadly they paint with that particular brush.
I don't think so. Littering is just littering.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
by Plantagenet » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 13:47:27
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'U')nless they decide it's in the interest of "national security", in which case you have the right to remain silent until you can no longer stand the pain of having your fingernails ripped out with pliers.
Littering isn't really a matter of "national security"
It can be, considering how broadly they paint with that particular brush.
I don't think so. Littering is just littering.
by TommyJefferson » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 14:03:55
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'M')r. oowolf has admitted he is a serial litterbug. The involvement of the FBI suggests Mr. oowolf may be involved in more serious extra-legal activities then just littering.
I think what Mr. Oowolf is doing is pretty cool. It may also be technically illegal.
It's really not "littering" by the way. Litter is waste disposed in the wrong place by unlawful human action. This is not waste. It is political speech like burning a flag or pirate political radio. Of course, every person is usually in violation of
some government regulation 24 hours a day, so practically speaking, they can jail him anytime they wish.
I also think it's cool the FBI is doing their jobs by checking out Oowolf to investigate whether he presents a physical danger to the public. That's their job.
It becomes very UNcool when the FBI starts breaking the laws "for the public good". In this case they have not.
I predict Oowolf will be just fine as long as he doesn't get on the wrong side of the IRS.
Conform . Consume . Obey .
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by Plantagenet » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 14:29:45
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'M')r. oowolf has admitted he is a serial litterbug. The involvement of the FBI suggests Mr. oowolf may be involved in more serious extra-legal activities then just littering.
I think what Mr. Oowolf is doing is pretty cool. It may also be technically illegal.
It's really not "littering" by the way.
Yes it is.
People who put little signs on the freeway are charged with littering.
People who want to advertise their business or tell the world about their political views or seek out sex partners or whatever it may be think their own personal needs are so important they can misuse public property. However, people are not allowed to put their signs up in public parks or freeways or government buildings or other public property. If they do, they can be charged with littering.
by vision-master » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 15:02:06
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'M')r. oowolf has admitted he is a serial litterbug. The involvement of the FBI suggests Mr. oowolf may be involved in more serious extra-legal activities then just littering.
I think what Mr. Oowolf is doing is pretty cool. It may also be technically illegal.
It's really not "littering" by the way.
Yes it is.
People who put little signs on the freeway are charged with littering.
People who want to advertise their business or tell the world about their political views or seek out sex partners or whatever it may be think their own personal needs are so important they can misuse public property. However, people are not allowed to put their signs up in public parks or freeways or government buildings or other public property. If they do, they can be charged with littering.
Planeted_ape_shit, The FBI is involed with littering? Help me with this.
by Plantagenet » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 15:54:54
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')r. oowolf has admitted he is a serial litterbug.
Dude! Why aren't there FBI agents crawling over every major sporting event that involves tailgating then?
(1) Dude! There aren't federal laws against littering at sporting events but there are federal laws against littering in national parks, federal government buildings, freeways etc.
(2) I agree that its a bit unusual for someone posting signs and littering freeways to have attracted the FBI's attention. The involvement of the FBI suggests Mr. Oowolf may well be suspected of involvement in other criminal activities in addition to littering, or he may have had information about other people's activities that the FBI wished to learn about. We have heard Mr. oowolf's account of the meeting, and his assertion that he is a just a typical guy with absolutely no ID who is being persecuted for his littering solely because of his political beliefs ---- but its possible there is more to the story then Mr. oowolf has chosen to share with us.
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
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Keep running between the raindrops.
by vision-master » Wed 11 Jun 2008, 17:05:23
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')r. oowolf has admitted he is a serial litterbug.
Dude! Why aren't there FBI agents crawling over every major sporting event that involves tailgating then?
(1) Dude! There aren't federal laws against littering at sporting events but there are federal laws against littering in national parks, federal government buildings, freeways etc.
(2) I agree that its a bit unusual for someone posting signs and littering freeways to have attracted the FBI's attention. The involvement of the FBI suggests Mr. Oowolf may well be suspected of involvement in other criminal activities in addition to littering, or he may have had information about other people's activities that the FBI wished to learn about. We have heard Mr. oowolf's account of the meeting, and his assertion that he is a just a typical guy with absolutely no ID who is being persecuted for his littering solely because of his political beliefs ---- but its possible there is more to the story then Mr. oowolf has chosen to share with us.
I don't think he was littering.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '5')77.070. 1. A person commits the crime of littering if he throws or places, or causes to be thrown or placed, any glass, glass bottles, wire, nails, tacks, hedge, cans, garbage, trash, refuse, or rubbish of any kind, nature or description on the right-of-way of any public road or state highway or on or in any of the waters in this state or on the banks of any stream, or on any land or water owned, operated or leased by the state, any board, department, agency or commission thereof or on any land or water owned, operated or leased by the federal government or on any private real property owned by another without his consent.
2. Littering is a class A misdemeanor. The court shall also order the offender to pick up and remove litter along any public highway or road under the supervision of the court on an organization selected by the court as follows:
(1) For the first offense, the offender shall spend four hours of either picking up litter or performing other community service commensurate with the offense;
(2) For any subsequent offense, the offender shall spend eight hours of either picking up litter or performing other community service commensurate with the offense.
3. If a violation of this section involves the operation of a motor vehicle, upon a finding of guilt, the court shall forward a record of the finding to the department of revenue, which shall assess two points on the violator's driver's license under section 302.302, RSMo.
[302.302. 1. The director of revenue shall put into effect a point system for the suspension and revocation of licenses. Points shall be assessed only after a conviction or forfeiture of collateral. The initial point value is as follows:
(1) Any moving violation of a state
law or county or municipal or federal traffic
ordinance or regulation not listed in this section,
other than a violation of vehicle equipment
provisions or a court-ordered supervision as
provided in section 302.303 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 points (except any violation of municipal stop sign ordinance
where no accident is involved . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 point)
(you see...... 'moderator' becomes him 
)
