[Narz]

Depends what you mean by "our way of life".

[Hagakure_Leofman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Polemic', 'L')ook how super-cute that thing is.

[Cashmere]

Look, it's really very simple. You can put as much lipstick on this pig as you want, but at the end of the day, the analysis is simple.

First, let me point out that poachers in Africa routinely shoot endangered mountain gorillas for meat. Not for money, not for safety, not to protect crops, not for sport.

<i><b>for meat.</i></b>

I write that only to provide evidence of how base our fundamental biological impulses are.


Now let's got on to the fucking polar bears.

Polar bears. The new poster child for granola eating, berkinstock wearing douchebags who drive their Priuses to Starbucks every day where they spend an hour drinking a 5 dollar coffee and surfing on the Net through the wi-fi hot spot with their Apple Itard computer.

People, the Polar Bears are already gone; what you're looking at is simply the long funeral.

Polar bear extinction began right about the time that our ancestors learned to group hunt and speak to each other. The extinction was a foregone conclusion.

In fact, I quite comfortably predict that no large land animal that has not been domesticated will survive human civilization.

We will not stop.

We will destroy every habitat, change the climate, hunt them for food, kill them if they compete, and so on.

If you are so delusional so as to think that in a world of 6.5 billion people with several billion facing starvation in the next few decades that the whole oil-allowed save the whatever movement will survive then you need a reality check.

I'm giving it to you here.

There are one of two positions.

1. You believe that humans and animals are equal.
2. You believe that humans are above (other) animals and that human life is more precious than animal life.

If 1, then you're screwed, because your life is only possible to the detriment of animals, and your only option, if you want to protect polar bears, is to check yourself out. This is what I call the great Vegan paradox. If you are alive, then you can't be Vegan, because being alive, in and of itself, is monstrously destructive to animals. The orangutans are being driven to extinction so that you can drive that Prius and own that Mac Itard. Simple as that.

If 2, then it's time you understood something . . .

The next 20 years is when the petri dish becomes completely full, and you will be fighting for your life.

If you don't want to do that, then check yourself out and I'll see you on the flip side.

If you do want to fight to survive, then you'd better understand that the orangutans and polar bears are already dead, and the only fight you should be thinking about is the fight for your own survival, and, to the extent you feel compelled, the fight for the survival of your family, friends, and others around you.

That's it.

It sucks, it means we're destroyers, but there it is, in plain black and white.

When I hear someone thinking about saving the polar bears, it's equivalent to me to being aboard a plane that is going down and we're doing everything we can to prepare to live through the crash landing and the person next to me is concerned that the porcelain doll in her overhead luggage might be damaged.

[Aaron]

Hi Cashmere

You're kinda mean.

\just sayin

[Dukkha]

There's a difference between what's inevitable and what's merely probable.

[Revi]

Nice rant, Cashmere. I think you should take a little trip up to polar bear territory and get you one. Watch out for tricinosis. Cook that meat thoroughly. Better yet, you should fight it out with the bear with just a knife. That would be a fair fight!

They congregate in Churchill, Manitoba in October. Maybe you could go on one of those big tired schoolbus buggy tours, but when you get to the bears you could leap out and put on a show.

Here's a link:

http://www.tundrabuggy.com/

All kidding aside, it sounds like polar bears may really make a difference in combating global warming after all. They may slow down the regulatory process for getting a coal fired power plant going:

http://www.321energy.com/editorials/kas ... 52608.html

[Ferretlover]

Welcome.
Have you spoken to your local or state law enforcement agencies to find out if they are PO aware, and/or what their plans are as to patrols, etc., when gas is at a premium?
Do they have regular or hybrid cars? That sort of thing.
You might also check with your city government about city department operations (police, ambulances, etc) as the availability declines?

[Revi]

You have to read Dimitri Orlov's book, Reinventing Collapse. There is no way of sustaining our way of life, but there is a way through. We will live much simpler lives. The village as a survival unit will re-emerge.

Kunstler's book, World Made by Hand is great, too. Imagine a world where a gallon of gas is not to be found by the average person. The world won't end, but a lot of things will.

I think crime will increase too, but just for a while. There won't be much worth stealing soon. Drugs may be more popular, though.

As a person who doesn't drink or do drugs, it will be important to keep yourself and your family safe from the druggies. They may be a bit irrational at times.

It's a crazy world, and getting crazier.

[Daniel_Plainview]

2 ways to maintain/sustain our standard of living:

1. Major technological breakthroughs in energy/fuel; and/or

2. Major reduction in population commensurate with depletion of resources.

[Hagakure_Leofman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'N')ow let's got on to the fucking polar bears.

[btu2012]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DantesPeak', 'H')owever if you post some facts about your situation in Portugal, that you want someone to comment about, you'll probably get some response at po.com.

[btu2012]

Nope, the great talent in that regard is demonstrated by MiniQuest Slave. We've got to be very careful with his sensitivities....

Now he's gonna sue me for libel ....

[Peleg]

This thread cannot possibly accomplish what the OP intends. In fact I think the subliminal message here is something more like 'We have a bunch of shut-ins here who do not have a life outside this site. Please don't try to take the warm fuzzy feeling of doom away from anyone here, it is the only friend they have.'

Now that I have that off my chest, let's get even more real. Newbs is a put-down plain and simple. The mods have to merge those 'peak oil is non-sense threads' or delete them.

However, in any type of policy effort you have to convince and convince and sometimes reconvince. I am hoping that the goal here is not to curl up in a cold root cellar like Tim Roberts in War of the Worlds. Be patient and take time to at least give one response to new visitors that shows your intellect and character and not your neuroses.

If you act like a slug people are going to treat you like a slug and it will reflect poorly on this site and the efforts of us all.

[ptomeyrules]

i am new here,it kind of nice to find people that are thinking like i am,this is what we need is to stick together during this time

[BigTex]

I think we have shown our skill in insulting one another up to this point in this thread.

From here on, could we move the discussion more in the direction of welcoming new folks, answering questions, pointing people in the direction of more information...that sort of thing.

Thanks.

[joeltrout]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JennyLB82', 'j')oeltrout, i think you are a little harsh. this is a new members welcome forum. don't bite people's head off on the first day. i would think you would want to make people hopeful about a not-so-hopeful situation. i have made a total of 3 posts, i am new. that's why i am in the welcome forum.

[btu2012]

Does brainwashing newbies into "cutting the rope" and abandoning "full belly ethics" count as a welcome ?

The first commandment:

Ye shall have no other gods besides MQ. For he is a jealous god

The second commandment:

Ye shall prove your non-newb status by agreeing to kill multitudes.

The third commandment:

Ye shall bash Ludi, Shannymara and Threadbear at every opportunity.

Thus spake the prophet.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', 'D')oes brainwashing newbies into "cutting the rope" and abandoning "full belly ethics" count as a welcome ?
The first commandment:
Ye shall prove your non-newb status by agreeing to kill multitudes.
Thus spake the prophet.

[btu2012]

Yes BigTex. Have to watch my mindfulness.

[Cashmere]

Awwww, Cashmere is mean. Cashmere has no sense of humor. Cashmere can't swear with aplomb.

Blow it out your collective asses.

You've got the concept of Peak Oil, right?

You understand that it's greed and power lust that motivates the people running the world, right?

You understand that people behave like animals, right?

Put them all together to form a single picture and you'll see that polar bears are not in the picture.

If you want to dream, dream. If you want to fantasize, have a blast.

But to waste time and resources for a doomed animal is irrational.

Like I keep saying, when you get down to people being hungry, all the berkinstock bullhockey goes right out the window.

You want to know how people behave when they get hungry?

They shoot a severely endangered primate for meat.

Money and time spent on trying to save the polar bears is money and time wasted.

By the way, I'm not trying to entertain you, female poster with the "beautiful horse" avatar.

Use the ignore button.

I get it that you don't want to hear the horror of it. Believe me I get it. But maybe, just maybe, I'm not posting for your benefit.