by yeahbut » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 00:05:15
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'I') hate to see a group as enlightened as us breaking down into such unpleasantness toward one another.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')uck off Ludi...I am not wasting one more stroke on my keyboa
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', 'F')uck off impostor.
Go bullshit someone else.
You know less about enlightenment than a dying frog.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')...wanker...stay here on this thread...don't wander off too far spreading ewe self-serving poison...know what a dying bullshit frog like EWE sounds like?
by btu2012 » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 00:31:41
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'I')'m very aware of this dangers, now. But it was through painful lessons...
Do you have regular sleep ?
Btu
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by btu2012 » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 00:37:26
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', 'S')urely it would hard to find an historical figure with more extreme delusions than Jesus? This man actually thought he was the son of god. It doesn't get anymore megalomaniacal and delusional than that, surely. How can he be considered enlightened when his wisdom fails your test by being based on delusional 'experience'?
I disagree with your estimation of Jesus. But I understand that it makes one comfortable to play him down. It's always easier to crap on others so one won't feel bad about himself.
Experiences induced by meditation (breathing and concentration techniques) are far from what people like Jesus, Buddha etc attained. One can disagree with what others made of their message, but to deny their achievement outright is truly pathetic.
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by Kaj » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 00:48:52
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', 'S')urely it would hard to find an historical figure with more extreme delusions than Jesus? This man actually thought he was the son of god. It doesn't get anymore megalomaniacal and delusional than that, surely. How can he be considered enlightened when his wisdom fails your test by being based on delusional 'experience'?
I disagree with your estimation of Jesus. But I understand that it makes one comfortable to play him down. It's always easier to crap on others so one won't feel bad about themselves. Like golem above.
Experiences induced by meditation (breathing and concentration techniques) are far from what people like Jesus, Buddha etc attained.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
Btu
What distinguishes Jesus' and Budda's achievements from the average realisation?
Didn't the large part of Bhudda's wisdom come from meditation?
by yeahbut » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 02:02:27
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', 'S')urely it would hard to find an historical figure with more extreme delusions than Jesus? This man actually thought he was the son of god. It doesn't get anymore megalomaniacal and delusional than that, surely. How can he be considered enlightened when his wisdom fails your test by being based on delusional 'experience'?
I disagree with your estimation of Jesus. But I understand that it makes one comfortable to play him down. It's always easier to crap on others so one won't feel bad about himself.
Experiences induced by meditation (breathing and concentration techniques) are far from what people like Jesus, Buddha etc attained. One can disagree with what others made of their message, but to deny their achievement outright is truly pathetic.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
Btu
I'm sorry I upset you. My point was not to "crap on" Jesus, and if it helps, it didn't make me feel any better about myself
I was just trying to draw attention to what I saw as a contradiction in your concern for zensui's path. But you haven't really answered my question. If you believe that Jesus was the son of God, then I bow to your greater 'experience', and withdraw. If you don't tho, it was a fair question. What was his belief that he was the son of God if not an enormous delusional 'experience'? And if, as you have stated, you consider 'experiences' to be the worst of delusions on the path to knowledge, how can we take Jesus' knowledge seriously?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012I', 'I')n practice any system that leads to virtue is OK, the cultural details make little difference. All this worry about the many paths and cultures and beliefs and so on is a comfortable pseudo-problem.
I happen to agree with this statement, but I can't see how it sits with the other one. For starters, most people who pray believe they are talking to God. Surely by your measure this could be called delusional 'experience', and as for those(and I believe there are quite a lot of them)that think God actually talks to them, by your line of reasoning surely they are suffering from the "worst delusions"?
by bodigami » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 19:14:58
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', '(')...)
This statement puzzled me a bit btu. It implies that you hold Jesus in high esteem, and yet earlier on you share with zensui your concern that his self-perceived enlightenment is just delusion, based as it is on delusional 'experience'.
I never equated nirvana with delusion, quite the opposite.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', '
')Surely it would hard to find an historical figure with more extreme delusions than Jesus? This man actually thought he was the son of god. It doesn't get anymore megalomaniacal and delusional than that, surely. How can he be considered enlightened when his wisdom fails your test by being based on delusional 'experience'?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', '"')Experiences" are the worst delusion on the path to self-knowledge. It seems to me that you have not yet even started on that path.
Btu
To be fair, Jesus said he was a son of God not that he was God... which all of us are (according to Jesus's religious context). To him, all of us are his and her sons, and he said that we should love God (because it/he/she loves us too... I guess) and each other as (a sane and good) family. It's Christianism that is delusional and megalomaniac not "Christ" (Jesus, I think Christ impies Messiah).
by btu2012 » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 22:56:13
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ah, Hush, Puff, Whoof !
What a predictable reply.
Only a dishonest individual can fail to see that Blavatsky was a crook. Her record speaks for itself. It is also the case that people spend quite some time choosing appropriate names for their enterprises. It is ridiculous to believe that the highly controversial name "Lucifer Trust" was chosen by accident, irrespective of the pathetic attempts of some to whitewash this.
Alice Bailey is on record that her beliefs were Luciferian and anti-Christian. I think that there is a problem with Theosophy's attempt to de-Christianize the West and to convert it to some sort of pseudo-Indianist hodge-podge of inconsistent beliefs. The West was rightly criticized for attempting to impose its religion on the East, and I see no reason why Theosophy should be excused of practicing the same against Christianity.
Also there is no person instructed in Eastern philosophy and religion who fails to grasp the obvious fact that Theosophy is incompatible with both.
Btu
Last edited by
btu2012 on Thu 01 May 2008, 00:51:58, edited 3 times in total.
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by btu2012 » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 22:58:37
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', 'Y')es
OK, that's the most important. The problem(s) will disappear with time if you keep being very moderated for a while.
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by btu2012 » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 23:08:23
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kaj', 'W')hat distinguishes Jesus' and Budda's achievements from the average realisation?
Didn't the large part of Bhudda's wisdom come from meditation?
Meditation isn't a determined outcome process.
The outcome depends on what the person puts into it.
I think that Jesus, Buddha etc had an extraordinary level of self-knowledge, which informs their message. In my opinion this is very difficult to achieve, via meditation or otherwise.
Thus it deserves respect from any honest human being, irrespective of whether one agrees with their message or not.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
For yeahbut. It's funny how people who did not demonstrate even a remotely comparable capacity for self-knowledge keep labeling Jesus, Buddha etc as deluded. It takes mighty arrogance to do so. In my experience arrogance correlates inversely with meaningful achievement, as well as inversely with personal virtue.
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by yeahbut » Thu 01 May 2008, 05:56:45
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', '(')...)
This statement puzzled me a bit btu. It implies that you hold Jesus in high esteem, and yet earlier on you share with zensui your concern that his self-perceived enlightenment is just delusion, based as it is on delusional 'experience'.
I never equated nirvana with delusion, quite the opposite.
I have no strong feelings about that either way. I don't know enough about it, I'm clueless about enlightenment- ask anyone.
I certainly wouldn't presume to tell someone else they weren't enlightened and why, that would be extraordinarily arrogant. I wrote the above because my attention was caught by btu's emphatic statement that you were deluded in your feelings of enlightenment, originating as they seemed to, from mystical experiences: $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', 'T')he real question is why you had those experiences, and what they were meant to cover.
If you have enough courage to look for the truth.
Once you know that, you can set yourself on any path, buddhist or not.
"Experiences" are the worst delusion on the path to self-knowledge. It seems to me that you have not yet even started on that path.
This may be quite correct, I don't know. It seems like a lot of wise people have had mystical experiences, but maybe they're all deluded? I certainly don't know. Whatever, this belief of btu's struck me as at odds with his respect for Jesus, who I (incorrectly?) understood to have had many mystical experiences.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', '
')
For yeahbut. It's funny how people who did not demonstrate even a remotely comparable capacity for self-knowledge keep labeling Jesus, Buddha etc as deluded. It takes mighty arrogance to do so. In my experience arrogance correlates inversely with meaningful achievement, as well as inversely with personal virtue.
Btu
by btu2012 » Thu 01 May 2008, 09:27:05
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', 'b')tu...btu...btu...btu...
Oh, boy.
Btu
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by yeahbut » Thu 01 May 2008, 09:59:05
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('btu2012', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', 'b')tu...btu...btu...btu...
Oh, boy.
Btu
Wow, it's harder than getting a straight answer from Golem
. I guess you dont have one. I'm off to a nice place with no phone and no net for a few days, enjoy the peace and quiet while I'm gone
...
by btu2012 » Thu 01 May 2008, 12:37:32
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('golem', '.')..
It's so sad to see what happens when someone is driven by ego and disgust for his fellow humans.
Btu
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btu2012 on Thu 01 May 2008, 12:56:56, edited 2 times in total.
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by btu2012 » Thu 01 May 2008, 12:40:18
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', 'I') guess you dont have one.
You aren't out for an honest answer, but to soothe your pride. That's pointless and devoid of virtue.
Btu
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by btu2012 » Thu 01 May 2008, 13:19:20
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigQuake', 'T')otally worhtless unworking people recieve free food and undeserved respect worshipped as gods by the masses and have total control over life and death, and bring instant punishment and death by anyone that downt bow down to them in third world villlages such as Burma, and still have an incorrect religion of selfishness (cross legs, clothes eyes and say:its all abopu me... its all about me... its all about me...). Hey, but its a job and somebody has to life in luxury without working.
Do you happen to have some personal knowledge of Burmese buddhism ? I wonder on what you base the accusations above.
Btu
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You big clueless wankering EWE . 
[/quote]