[Graeme]

Dance of the oil fairies$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')uring the two-and-a-half-hour hearing, the oil executives repeatedly referred to a study by the National Petroleum Council released last July called "Facing the Hard Truths about Energy." This study maintains that oil, gas and coal will continue to dominate the energy mix in 2030, with renewables playing only a small part. The execs used this conclusion to dance around the need for rapid deployment of renewables, saying their study shows you can't get there from here.

[AirlinePilot]

Graeme,

Is it really that hard to believe that in 2030 we will still be using mostly oil to power our broken economies and war machines?

Alternatives as they exist now or even just down the road a bit cannot achieve what the politicians think or are wishing for. There is an entire populace just hoping and wishing that alternatives or technology will save us. We are far too late to mitigate the crisis at hand.

I'd say the real topic should be dance of the alternative fairies!

[Novus]

If there were viable alternatives to Oil and Coal we would be using them already. The only option is some form of power down where conspicuous consumption and frivolous motoring are no longer an option. Socialist Cuba is good model to go by for a low energy society with modest living standards.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'I')f there were viable alternatives to Oil and Coal we would be using them already. The only option is some form of power down where conspicuous consumption and frivolous motoring are no longer an option. Socialist Cuba is good model to go by for a low energy society with modest living standards.

[Graeme]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'G')raeme,

Is it really that hard to believe that in 2030 we will still be using mostly oil to power our broken economies and war machines?

Alternatives as they exist now or even just down the road a bit cannot achieve what the politicians think or are wishing for. There is an entire populace just hoping and wishing that alternatives or technology will save us. We are far too late to mitigate the crisis at hand.

I'd say the real topic should be dance of the alternative fairies!

[AirlinePilot]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'T')he only options left are to change government policy toward oil companies (e.g. by removing incentives/splitting them up, or introducing universal carbon taxes on all oil/gas/coal producers & users) and alternative energy companies (introduce tax incentives like oil companies get now). Government should also introduce comprehensive energy efficiency policies. Such changes are beginning to happen now in the US with the numerous energy bills being introduced to Congress.

I don't accept your assertion that it is too late. The US economy will grow with introduction of major alternative energy projects.

[Rabbit]

I think alternative energy will be everywhere! The alternative to our current energy hungry situation is not using energy. That means walking or riding a bike. It means not living in parts of the country that are covered in snow for months at a time or in deserts that require air conditioning. It means not driving 100 miles to work and back each day. It means not using water to grow a lawn when that water should be used to grow food. These are the alternatives society must embrace in order to remain civilized.

[Graeme]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'T')he only options left are to change government policy toward oil companies (e.g. by removing incentives/splitting them up, or introducing universal carbon taxes on all oil/gas/coal producers & users) and alternative energy companies (introduce tax incentives like oil companies get now). Government should also introduce comprehensive energy efficiency policies. Such changes are beginning to happen now in the US with the numerous energy bills being introduced to Congress.

I don't accept your assertion that it is too late. The US economy will grow with introduction of major alternative energy projects.

[Graeme]

Well, I just found one point of difference:

Obama's sensible fuel fix

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he three U.S. presidential candidates differ dramatically on a subject that will have far-reaching economic, strategic and foreign-policy ramifications: the growing dependence on foreign oil.

Where do the three candidates stand on this important issue? Obama has it figured out and spelled out, Hillary is ducking the issue and McCain would rather fight in the Middle East to secure supplies than switch from oil-based transportation fuels to more ethanol production.

Obama proposes a specific remedy: a law that would mandate flex-fuel engines in automobiles in order to break the oil monopoly, as Brazil has done. Letting consumers choose or blend the two fuels exerts downward price pressure and is good for the economy. Extra cost? US$100 a model.

But the oil lobbyists are powerful and blame ethanol for everything from depleting water supplies to the claim its production requires more oil than is used to make gasoline. They say ethanol subsidies destroy the "free" market -- as if there was one in transportation fuels.

[AirlinePilot]

Graeme,

I think the reality is that whatever proposals you see from the campaigns right now wont be what is implemented later. Even if they say one thing now it could take them the entire four years(or LONGER) to get anything done. The way our system is so dangerously gridlocked now nothing of substance is ever brought to fruition.

We need drastic measures and Im pretty sure all we are going to see is more of the same. Its a pessimistic outlook to be sure, but I think its quite realistic also. Our government is ineffective and weak. Its riddled with special interest and corporate groups with huge sums of money. Doing the right thing will only happen when it smacks them upside the head. By then its my opinion its already too late.

The US being an economic and world leader has to step up to the plate to begin to change the way we do things. I just dont see anyone on the political or corporate landscape who is up to the challenge.

Obama's Flex Fuel initiative is a joke. Are we going to feed the world or watch them starve while we run down the wrong path with ethanol?

I understand your thoughts and the European mindset about change. I wish we had more of that here because I think its extremely important to get the US on the same track immediately. It gets everyone else moving on the global stage. Right now without that, all these things you come up with here at PO, while wonderful and important projects, don't cut it on any real scale.

It's why I like to call them science projects. Until large economies embrace them 110% change will be woefully inadequate and far too slow to really matter.

[Graeme]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'G')raeme,

I think the reality is that whatever proposals you see from the campaigns right now wont be what is implemented later. Even if they say one thing now it could take them the entire four years(or LONGER) to get anything done. The way our system is so dangerously gridlocked now nothing of substance is ever brought to fruition.

We need drastic measures and Im pretty sure all we are going to see is more of the same. Its a pessimistic outlook to be sure, but I think its quite realistic also. Our government is ineffective and weak. Its riddled with special interest and corporate groups with huge sums of money. Doing the right thing will only happen when it smacks them upside the head. By then its my opinion its already too late.

The US being an economic and world leader has to step up to the plate to begin to change the way we do things. I just dont see anyone on the political or corporate landscape who is up to the challenge.

Obama's Flex Fuel initiative is a joke. Are we going to feed the world or watch them starve while we run down the wrong path with ethanol?

I understand your thoughts and the European mindset about change. I wish we had more of that here because I think its extremely important to get the US on the same track immediately. It gets everyone else moving on the global stage. Right now without that, all these things you come up with here at PO, while wonderful and important projects, don't cut it on any real scale.

It's why I like to call them science projects. Until large economies embrace them 110% change will be woefully inadequate and far too slow to really matter.

[Graeme]

AP, Of course, another major force for change in the US is the judiciary. We've already touched on Congress passing new laws. I don't want to go into that now. What I wanted to point out was this article, in case you and others missed it.

NY Sues EPA Over Global Warming Regulations

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ew York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, joining with the Attorneys General of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and 15 other states has filed a lawsuit against the Environmental Protection Agency, demanding that the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) comply with the Supreme Court’s decision holding that the Agency has the authority to regulate global warming pollution under the Clean Air Act.

“Despite clear directions a year ago from the highest court in the land, the EPA has failed to move forward on combating global warming. The EPA’s foot-dragging would not be tolerated from any other defendant that failed to comply with a court order,” said Cuomo. “Global warming is one of the most critical environmental problems of our generation, posing huge risks to our environment, health, and economy, both globally and right here in New York. We all know that global warming is dangerous — it’s beyond dispute. But a year after the Supreme Court’s decision, the EPA refuses to acknowledge even this simple truth.”

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rabbit', 'I') think alternative energy will be everywhere! The alternative to our current energy hungry situation is not using energy. That means walking or riding a bike. It means not living in parts of the country that are covered in snow for months at a time or in deserts that require air conditioning. It means not driving 100 miles to work and back each day. It means not using water to grow a lawn when that water should be used to grow food. These are the alternatives society must embrace in order to remain civilized.