[Heineken]

Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse.

[Olaf]

...ahh, good to see you woke up feeling optimistic this morning.

Now do something to make it suck less.

Olaf

[Stratovarius]

It's the end of the world and I feel fine.

[Nicholai]

It's not over for Alberta. We'll be stable for several more years. (5-10 years)

It's not over for China or India.

China may have had a bit of a hit on the stock market, but with 11% growth and a burgeoning middle class, their reliance on US consumer demand is shrinking quickly. The rest of the world might feel a decent pinch, but when push comes to shove, it's the US that is getting trampled.

The world is over for you folks. No more glory days. With Russia growing with an 8% GDP per year, I guess they'll be the last ones to laugh.

I wonder if this will be like the fall of the Maya. One weak nation will be taken over by another until it we reach a breaking point among all nations, followed by a power-vacuum. I wonder what Monte Quest thinks about this.

[dunewalker]

Nothing makes sense today. The U.S. markets are up, many world markets are down, oil is way down, gold & silver are way down, the dollar index is up---what gives, what's going to happen next?

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nicholai', '
')The world is over for you folks. No more glory days. With Russia growing with an 8% GDP per year, I guess they'll be the last ones to laugh.

[Iaato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunewalker', 'N')othing makes sense today. The U.S. markets are up, many world markets are down, oil is way down, gold & silver are way down, the dollar index is up---what gives, what's going to happen next?

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')hings have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Iaato', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunewalker', 'N')othing makes sense today. The U.S. markets are up, many world markets are down, oil is way down, gold & silver are way down, the dollar index is up---what gives, what's going to happen next?

[Iaato]

My husband (who has been gone for five long months) skied into a group hut in Yosemite last weekend. He said there were a bunch of Silicon Valley types, and he was surprised at how many of them got the economic problems, and also several understood peak oil. Then again, he also said there were people in the hut listening to the conversation with very wide eyes.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Iaato', 'M')y husband (who has been gone for five long months) skied into a group hut in Yosemite last weekend. He said there were a bunch of Silicon Valley types, and he was surprised at how many of them got the economic problems, and also several understood peak oil. Then again, he also said there were people in the hut listening to the conversation with very wide eyes.

[Ludi]

We're DOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

[bobaloo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')othing makes sense today. The U.S. markets are up, many world markets are down, oil is way down, gold & silver are way down, the dollar index is up---what gives, what's going to happen next?

[BigTex]

I buy the short term trouble thesis.

I also believe we are experiencing the first post-PO recession.

It will be really interesting to see what the economy looks like on the other side of this recession.

I'm sure that we will emerge from this recession with better economic growth than we are seeing now, plus more optimism, since I think optimism is cyclical whether the fundamentals are good or bad.

However, I think that people are going to begin to notice that the post-recession economic growth will not be as robust, and won't last as long before the economy begins to sputter again.

That's the economic effect of PO, right? No more cheap energy, no more easy growth. No more demand destruction that drives energy prices into the floor during the downturns either.

I'm still trying to figure out how the debt and credit trouble fit into everything.

Maybe it's a little bit like driving a V-8 engine on only six cylinders. You aren't getting the performance that the engine design suggests because you aren't able to utilize all of the engine's potential. You would like to get the engine fixed, but you don't have any money. Meanwhile, you also stopped making payments on the thing several months ago, so there is a repo man chasing you around, and the inability to use all eight cylinders may make it so that you can't go fast enough to outrun him.

The V-8 = Industrial Civilization
Missing Two Cylinders = High Energy Prices
Can't Fix the Motor = Peak Oil
Stopped Making Payments = Sub-Prime, Consumer Debt, Government Debt
Repo Man = Total Economic Collapse

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')e're DOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'I') buy the short term trouble thesis.

I also believe we are experiencing the first post-PO recession.

It will be really interesting to see what the economy looks like on the other side of this recession.

I'm sure that we will emerge from this recession with better economic growth than we are seeing now, plus more optimism, since I think optimism is cyclical whether the fundamentals are good or bad.

However, I think that people are going to begin to notice that the post-recession economic growth will not be as robust, and won't last as long before the economy begins to sputter again.

That's the economic effect of PO, right? No more cheap energy, no more easy growth. No more demand destruction that drives energy prices into the floor during the downturns either.

I'm still trying to figure out how the debt and credit trouble fit into everything.

Maybe it's a little bit like driving a V-8 engine on only six cylinders. You aren't getting the performance that the engine design suggests because you aren't able to utilize all of the engine's potential. You would like to get the engine fixed, but you don't have any money. Meanwhile, you also stopped making payments on the thing several months ago, so there is a repo man chasing you around, and the inability to use all eight cylinders may make it so that you can't go fast enough to outrun him.

The V-8 = Industrial Civilization
Missing Two Cylinders = High Energy Prices
Can't Fix the Motor = Peak Oil
Stopped Making Payments = Sub-Prime, Consumer Debt, Government Debt
Repo Man = Total Economic Collapse

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nicholai', 'I')t's not over for Alberta. We'll be stable for several more years. (5-10 years)

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')ex, you're viewing the situation only in economic terms.

You don't seem to be giving sufficient weight to environmental factors. They will dwarf the economic problems (but are of course interrelated with them).

[Heineken]

So you think the environment is going to start getting better? For example, that global warming is going to go away? Etc., etc.

I can acknowledge the possibility of some sort of half-hearted, brief economic recovery, but not an environmental recovery---at least, not until we're well and truly whacked and a few centuries have passed.

First, we have to pay the piper.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'I') buy the short term trouble thesis.

I also believe we are experiencing the first post-PO recession.

It will be really interesting to see what the economy looks like on the other side of this recession.

I'm sure that we will emerge from this recession with better economic growth than we are seeing now, plus more optimism, since I think optimism is cyclical whether the fundamentals are good or bad.

However, I think that people are going to begin to notice that the post-recession economic growth will not be as robust, and won't last as long before the economy begins to sputter again.

That's the economic effect of PO, right? No more cheap energy, no more easy growth. No more demand destruction that drives energy prices into the floor during the downturns either.

I'm still trying to figure out how the debt and credit trouble fit into everything.

Maybe it's a little bit like driving a V-8 engine on only six cylinders. You aren't getting the performance that the engine design suggests because you aren't able to utilize all of the engine's potential. You would like to get the engine fixed, but you don't have any money. Meanwhile, you also stopped making payments on the thing several months ago, so there is a repo man chasing you around, and the inability to use all eight cylinders may make it so that you can't go fast enough to outrun him.

The V-8 = Industrial Civilization
Missing Two Cylinders = High Energy Prices
Can't Fix the Motor = Peak Oil
Stopped Making Payments = Sub-Prime, Consumer Debt, Government Debt
Repo Man = Total Economic Collapse