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F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

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F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby Zardoz » Tue 11 Mar 2008, 21:27:06

Well, after all, we're going to need the latest and greatest of every type of military hardware we can come up with to fight all those resource wars we're going to get into over the next few decades, so this is probably a good investment:

Jet fighter costs to hit $1 trillion

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he cost of buying and operating a new fleet of jet fighters for the U.S. military is nearing $1 trillion, according to a congressional audit that found the program dogged by delays, manufacturing inefficiencies and price increases.

Released Tuesday, the report from the Government Accountability Office offers a sobering assessment of the ambitious effort to deliver a modern series of aircraft known as the F-35 Lightning II to the Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps.

Tasked by Congress to conduct an annual assessment of the program, the GAO said costs have gone up by $23 billion since last year alone.

Close to $300 billion is needed to acquire 2,458 aircraft for the three services and another $650 billion will be needed to operate and maintain the fighters that are expected to be flying well into the 21st century, the report says.

Here's what your tax dollars are paying for, my fellow 'Merikans. It was originally known as the "Joint Strike Fighter":

A typical military-industrial complex web site

Image

With the three variants of this plane, and the mighty F-22 air superiority beast, we'll be all set to maintain our control of the skies for as long as we can come up with enough fuel for them.

But securing fuel supplies is what they're really all about, isn't it?
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 11 Mar 2008, 21:39:35

Great story about F-35 boondoggle.

PS: Have you been travelling, Zardoz?

Haven't seen your smiling icon lately.....
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Tue 11 Mar 2008, 21:57:52

That is one bad ass airplane though. They are putting either a laser or Particle beam type weapon on a few versions of this for short range engagements. That is cool.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 11 Mar 2008, 22:09:40

I always liked the A-10s. Cheap, rugged, built with duplicate control cables... armored and slow close-support tank-killers. This one survived a sortie over Baghdad and held together long enough to get back to base.

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They used to be flown at Eilison Air Force base here in Alaska.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby Angry_Chimp » Tue 11 Mar 2008, 22:20:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', ' ')They are putting either a laser or Particle beam type weapon on a few versions of this for short range engagements. That is cool.


Ya then they can blow those pesky al qaeda terrorist out of the sky.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby heroineworshipper » Tue 11 Mar 2008, 22:26:10

The F-35 is mainly being bought by foreign countries in the hopes that they'll give us a mercy killing.
People first, then things, then dollars.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Tue 11 Mar 2008, 23:35:30

Yeah. In case anyone missed that, that's $3000 per American Citizen. Sure makes me happy to be filling out my tax forms. How about you?
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Tue 11 Mar 2008, 23:40:58

Maybe we could put a couple of missile launchers on this for a trillion bucks, so at least we could get some decent mass transit out of the equation.

:roll:

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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby roccman » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 01:00:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'T')hat is one bad ass airplane though. They are putting either a laser or Particle beam type weapon on a few versions of this for short range engagements. That is cool.


Ummmm...why?

There is not one useful purpose for this aircraft...it is an utter and complete waste of money.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 01:15:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'T')hat is one bad ass airplane though. They are putting either a laser or Particle beam type weapon on a few versions of this for short range engagements. That is cool.


Ummmm...why?

There is not one useful purpose for this aircraft...it is an utter and complete waste of money.


Yeah. I'm with Rocc on this one. There is no concievable need for this thing. I'm not down at all with forking out thousands of bucks from my own pocket so Iceman and Maverick can be cool while they stroke their lasers.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 01:47:00

Well, the reality is that within a very short period of time we will need a replacement for the F-16. This is it.

That airframe is getting very old and we are using them up at a fairly rapid pace due to ops tempo. I do agree that spending this kind of money is probably not prudent. We would probably do just fine building fresh current gen aircraft for the foreseeable future.

Also, China is becoming a possible future adversary and it will be necessary to have a very capable arsenal which acts as a force multiplier. This aircraft, the F-22, and the next gen long range stealth bomber will foot the bill.

I'm wondering how the hell we are going to pay for it though once the FED finishes up its fun and games and we are in the next great depression.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 01:59:21

A few links Shanny....

Most of the development I have read about concerns lasers but I did see an article in Aviation Week a few months back talking about particle beam/directed energy weapons also.

Very cool stuff!

laser stuff F-35

More....F-35 laser possibilities

another link
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 02:05:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', 'W')ell, the reality is that within a very short period of time we will need a replacement for the F-16.


Who is this "we" that you speak of. I assure you I have no conceivable need to replace the F-16. If there is in fact a "we" that needs this plane, they should pay for it instead of extorting the money from me.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 02:18:23

Couldn't we just build a gigantic laser wall or missile shield to protect the country for a TRILLION dollars?

It seems to me like we could have spent this money more efficiently.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 02:33:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'W')hy, I'm just thrilled to write those checks every quarter.


Every quarter? I'm jealous. At this point I have to make 41 separate income tax payments per year.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 03:12:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'Y')ou must go through a lot of antiemetics, then. I'm sorry.

It's ok. I get a professional discount when I buy them in bulk.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 03:16:10

I don't pay my taxes
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby Zardoz » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 03:23:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '.')..it is an utter and complete waste of money.

The same could be said for your personal arsenal, unless, of course, things really do go very far south. Your ammo supply and array of weaponry is no different from the F-35 program. Hopefully neither will be needed, but both will be there if they are.

We aren't the nation, or the people, we used to be, but we're still really good at one thing: Threatening other nations at gunpoint. We're the best there is at that sort of thing.

To maintain that edge, which I'm sure you'll agree we're going to need to do as TS progressively HTF over the next few decades, it's crucial that we stay ahead of the game and always have an overwhelming advantage over any possible adversary we may encounter, such as those pesky Chinese, for instance, who are becoming increasingly bold. We can't wait around and watch our military hardware become old, worn out, and obsolete. We have to improve upon it and replace it well before it becomes unusable.

For example: F-117 Stealth Fighter to Be Retired

It's history. The Nighthawk is gone. The F-22 replaces both it and the F-15 air superiority fighter. It's a huge improvement over both.

From the JSF web site:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he JSF will fulfill stated Service needs as follows:

U. S. Navy - First day of war, survivable strike fighter aircraft to complement F/A-18E/F

U.S. Air Force - Multirole aircraft (primary-air-to-ground) to replace the F-16 and A-10 and complement the F/A-22

U.S. Marine Corps - STOVL (Short Take Off and Vertical Landing) aircraft to replace the AV-8B and F/A-18 as their only strike fighter

United Kingdom Royal Navy & Royal Air Force - STOVL aircraft to replace Sea Harriers & GR.7s as a supersonic strike fighter

Other Countries - Potential JSF customers include current operators of F-16, F/A-18, and AV-8B

Keep in mind that the F-35 is stealthy. It's tough to pick up on radar, as opposed to all those planes it'll be replacing, which shine like beacons on a radar screen.

Considering all the things this plane needs to be good for, and how many variations of it there will be, it's not so surprising that the costs got so far out of hand. It's just the price you have to pay to be the biggest thug on the planet.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby TheDude » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 09:09:32

Thought this was going to be about a trillion dollar airplane! All platinum body or something.

Laser shield? How are we going to bomb bomb bomb Iran with that?

I've been wondering about the effect the US nuclear weapons arsenal might have on shipments of oil. Not hard to picture some rather heavy handed backroom dealings. We have more than enough bombs to turn all of OPEC into the proverbial sheet of glass, after all.

Assuming the POTUS cares about the US motorist, of course.
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Re: F-35 cost: Now One TRILLION Bucks

Unread postby AWPrime » Wed 12 Mar 2008, 09:10:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'C')ouldn't we just build a gigantic laser wall or missile shield to protect the country for a TRILLION dollars?
One never wins a war by being on the defense.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t seems to me like we could have spent this money more efficiently.
But this is true. Many of the developers were inefficient with their money.

Aside of the hightech stuff, the US military will still need reliable low tech equipment such as the A-10.
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