[killJOY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')y guess is that he is the product of professionals and grew up a well educated, well funded New York City Jew.

[MarkJames]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('furrydog', 'H')ere's another piece by Kunstler linking cheap oil and NASCAR.

Cheap Oil Is Over: Kiss the Gas Guzzling NASCAR Era Goodbye

By James Howard Kunstler, Chelsea Green Publishing. Posted March 11, 2008.

A suburban nation of snowmobilers, dirtbikers and NASCAR races -- all of it was made possible by the one-time blessing of cheap oil.

[mark]

I love Kunstler's writing. His style, at least his blogs, are a joy to read. He has identified a problem, misallocation of resources, beyond peak oil that peak will only accentuate.

I think his ideal of a return to a more agrarian life paints a far too rosy picture of the calamity and consequences facing us. I believe the far larger problem facing the whole of the human race is the descent into materialism and the destruction of the moral center that should guide our decisions. A return to moral consciousness may take a far more destructive path or; Kunstler may be right. Who is so prescient as to know? He does, however, have the courage to speak his view of the world.

While you may disagree with his conclusions, why denigrate the man? Writers put themselves at risk of ridicule when they offer their own views; that should foment discussion of the ideas, not the person making them. Those who disagree should should state their arguments to the contrary and let the reader decide. Attacks on the man don't offer much enlightenment.

[dinopello]

I love Kunstler, but agree with some of the points about. He is not a guy you point naive newbies to on peak oil. He is not any more knowledgeable about the technicalities of any field whether that be geology, energy, home appliances, or politics than any other liberal arts major. I don't know what an elitist is, so he may be one of those and I do think he doesn't have a lot of first hand experience with the "NASCAR" crowd - except when he is out there talking at them (and taking a few questions).

He preaches to the choir and I came to like him much more for his commentary on human settlement patterns and the humanities than his more recent energy and financial commentary. He recognized something was wrong and gave entertaining expression to that idea long before many others. Jane Jacobs was the same way, although in a much nicer personna (perhaps not as entertaining).

At heart, he seems like a humble man to me. He believes life is inherently tragic and humanity, full of hubris as always, continues to believe we can cheat nature and now nature is about to get really pissed.

[killJOY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')t heart, he seems like a humble man to me. He believes life is inherently tragic and humanity, full of hubris as always, continues to believe we can cheat nature and now nature is about to get really pissed.

[mos6507]

Kuntsler is more concerned with the aesthetics of suburban architecture than he is about survival.

[Roy]

While I take his rants with a grain of salt.. I do agree with his assessment of American suburbia as "the greatest mis-allocation of resources in human history".

Yeah, that is a good way to describe it. He doesn't have to be right, he just has to be entertaining. I just don't take anything he says personally, though I be descended from generations of the type of people he refers to as rednecks, some from Missouri and some from Mississippi.

I check his blog every Monday morning for his latest rant. I don't always agree with him but his perspectives are interesting if nothing else.

Also, I think he made a salient point about ORVs. When I was a kid in So Cal, lots of people had dirt bikes, went to the desert to go riding on the weekends, bikes loaded on a trailer behind the Winnebago etc. It was definitely a working class, everyman sort of thing. Lots of people had one.

Now when I see dirt bikers, I see guys that make above average incomes, and a lot less of them at that, at least compared to when I was a kid. That hobby has gotten so expensive that the average joe with mortgage and kids can't afford it. I imagine snowmobiles and personal watercraft also fit that profile. RV's and boats might also qualify.

I believe that is due to the devaluation of our currency, and ultimately US oil production peaking (energy per capita declining) and the fact that the average worker makes less in real dollars than he did in 1970.

[MarkJames]

In the Adirondack Region of Upstate New York, many people gave up their dirt bikes and bought quads, snowmobiles, boats and waverunners.

Used snowmobiles sell cheap in the late season and off season, so even low income people can afford them. Many people sell or trade-in their snowmobile every 1 or 2 years.

[Heineken]

While I agree with KillJOY that Kunstler has irritating, offensive, and indeed right-wing qualities, I must say that no one does nearly as good a job as this guy at skewering the American wasteland. Thus, Kunstler provides a valuable service IMO. He and I share exactly the same extreme distaste for the suburban nowheresville.

He could be so much more, though. He really lost me when he defended Bush's war, and adopted some other dumb positions on things.

Tyler: The notion that you simply must have a college degree in something to comment intelligently about it is cowpies. For example, I don't have a forestry degree, but I know a hell of a lot about forestry from reading, observing, attending conferences, and daily personal experience.

[MacG]

Kunstler's predictions about the effect of PeakOil is almost exactly the same predictions he made back in '99 about the effects of Y2K.

[catbox]

I take what Kunstler says with a grain of salt. He's a writer....so he writes. You can read it or not. While I don't really dig the NASCAR reality or any motor sports for that matter, I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum with a love for pro cycling and soccer....but.... I find it pointless to bash those folks who enjoy cars going in circles.
OK, even though while riding out in the hills I've been called, "FAG!" by passing 4x4's with a big number NASCAR # 3 sticker on the back window.....I always tell myself they will wake up with the rest, and when they do...well...good luck NASCAR fans!



cb

[NWFla]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he liberal antidote for Kunstler-itis is Joe Bageant.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')
Tyler: The notion that you simply must have a college degree in something to comment intelligently about it is cowpies. For example, I don't have a forestry degree, but I know a hell of a lot about forestry from reading, observing, attending conferences, and daily personal experience.

[PopeGideon]

Edited

[Precipice]

I don't think Kunstler classifies as either left or right wing- he seems to think that the whole left-right political spectrum as we know it is based upon a delusional mentality that our industrial civilization has developed about the world and our place in it. I have seen him criticise both sides of politics for the role they have played in getting our civilization into the predicament(s) it is about to find itself in (or rather already is in).

Dissing/dismissing someone's views on a subject simply because they don't have a formal university education in that subject seems pretty "elitist" to me. If someone has obviously gone to great lengths to understand a subject in their own time, then they may well have something worthwhile and insightful to say about it. Speaking as a university-trained economist myself, I can say that it is refreshing to get alternative outsider perspectives on economics every now and then; in my own personal experience the 'education' dished out in university level economics courses frequently borders on indoctrination (ie with whatever economic ideology is the flavour of the moment.)

Kunstler is someone who strikes me as willing to think critically (and I do mean critically) about dominant paradigms in a broad range of fields, and if nothing else I am thankful to him for doing that and for encouraging others to do so as well.



.....And so what if he wrote a fiction book about the future? Who is it exactly that gets hurt by this??

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')
Tyler: The notion that you simply must have a college degree in something to comment intelligently about it is cowpies. For example, I don't have a forestry degree, but I know a hell of a lot about forestry from reading, observing, attending conferences, and daily personal experience.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Precipice', 'I') don't think Kunstler classifies either as left or right wing- he seems to think that the whole left-right political spectrum as we know it is based upon a delusional mentality that our industrial civilization has developed aboutthe world we live in and our place in it. I have seen him criticise both sides of politics for helping to place us into the predicament(s) our civilization is going to face.

Dissing/dismissing someone's views on a subject simply because they don't have a formal university education in that subject seems to pretty "elitist" to me. If someone has obviously gone to great lengths to understand a subject on their own time, then they may well have something worthwhile and insightful to say about it. Speaking as a university-trained economist myself, I can say that it is refreshing to get alternative outsider perspectives on economics every now and then; in my own personal experience the 'education' dished out in a university level economics course frequently borders on indoctrination (ie with whatever economic ideology is the flavour of the moment.)

Kunstler is someone who stikes me as willing to think critically (and I do mean critically) about dominant paradigms in a broad range of fields, and if nothing else I am thankful to him for doing that and for encouraging others to do so as well.

.....And so what if he wrote a fiction book about the future? Who is it exactly that gets hurt by this??

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PopeGideon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')uck you, Pope Gideon.

If you want to use this as an excuse to jew-bait, then go ahead but I'll not answer another one of your posts.

[Precipice]

Thanks Heineken

[JeeBoomba]

In my opinion, the problem with Kunstler is that he desperately wants to see the end of the current status quo so badly that he just latches on to anything that comes along and proclaims that this is it, this is the Big One that's going to reshape the world the way he thinks it should look.
TEOTWAWKI is a foregone conclusion in his mind and so he sees the end of the world in every bit of news that comes along. He's into doom porn, basically. And let's face it, many posters here engage in the same behavior, though less frequently than when I first registered. Loads of people have their personal reasons for wanting TEOTWAWKI--the spoiled elitists like Kunstler want to see the end of lowbrow culture, the racists want to see the blacks and Mexicans starve to death while building their white nation, the fundies want to see Jesus return, etc.
Kunstler is just another asshole with an agenda, except he's written some books and managed to find a way to prop up his faltering self-importance.