[nocar]

dohboi,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t is the sudden discontinuities that concern me. People who have always equated the effort of staying warm in the winter with simply turning up the thermostat and paying the not-very-high heating bill. If there are interruptions in gas, oil, or electric heating sources, many won't know how to cope.

[sittinguy]

FOOD,, Because after hyperinflation,(and eventually there will be hyperinflation) there will be an outcry of people who can't afford heat

As soon as one old lady dies from the cold,(thanks to our woulderfull media coverage) all the poor will get "assistance", in one way or another. Heating oil will be pletifull, but expensive. If your on gas they will help you convert. This is America right,, we can't have people freezing to death,,,,, whatever

But Food on the other hand will be expensive, but might not be so pletifull. I might never see another rasberry.

But you guys can keep the rasberries, I,ll stay in Florida and swim in the pool, its 82 degrees. yeah I said 82. I don't need heat.

If everyone cut wood, It wouldn't take long to cut the shit out some forests.

Here is a story I found interesting.

Here in Florida near my 82 degree pool, we have a bird called a sandhill crane,, its endangered, why?

I'll tell you why, Because back in the 1930s (depression) people were hungry, the cranes were big/slow/and probably tasty.

Noshit,, true story

[topcat]

As far as we are concerned, we are eatin' at the expense of heatin'.
It is easier to cut back on the thermosat but not so easy to cut back on the calories.

Ya gotta eat.

Sittingut: born in FL, sand hill cranes are beautiful.

[LoneSnark]

But eat what? Far more of our crops wind up being fed to our animals than to us. Hell, industry eats more agricultural product than we do.

I see no reason why a human could ever starve; I don't see any charities rushing to feed bread and potatoes to starving cattle.

If people become absolutely poorer they will shift their eating habbits away from meat and back to staples such as bread and potatoes.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('topcat', '
')It is easier to cut back on the thermosat but not so easy to cut back on the calories.

[sittinguy]

We have not even seen 1 single food shortage, not 1. Because, all it will take is 1.

The sheeple will wake up and start hoarding. And all the have nots will be in trouble. Most people have NOTHING for rainy days.
Then there could be outrage in the streets, (if were lucky) open season on luters.

Speaking of luters, we have a large black religious group in the Hotel this weekend. They are the most rude people we get here every year.

They steal all the towels, they raid the maids carts for soap and things, they steal the batteries out of the remotes, they take light bulbs, And then have the nerve to call us and say there was no light bulb or batteries in the remote, and demand we immeidiatly replace them. And Blacks wonder why they get a bad rap.

If I knew it was gonna be like this I would have picked my own cotton........................

[LoneSnark]

[MarkJames]

Here in the cold Northeast, the problems our heating oil, kerosene and propane customers face are poorly insulated, poorly weatherized homes with oversized, inefficient, poorly designed heating systems. We have customers with modest homes that burn over 1,000 gallons per season for space heating alone and customers with much larger efficient homes that burn less than half that for space heating and domestic hot water production combined.


Alternative/Supplemental heating systems including furnaces, boilers, stoves and fireplaces are easy enough to install, but my question would be whether or not wood, pellets, biobricks, corn and mixed fuels are sustainable on a large scale? Currently, anthracite coal boilers and stoves are about the cheapest way to heat if you have coal availability in your area.

One issue we've seen is an increase in pipe freezing, cracked boilers and burst water piping in poorly insulated basements, crawl space foundations and slab foundation housing due to the use of supplemental heating. When some people no longer use their furnaces and boilers, the furnace heat exchanger, ductwork, boiler block and hydronic piping are no longer keeping basements and crawlspaces warm and dry. Since the primary heating systems aren't being used, some are rusting, or sooting up due to condensation.

[goodmaj]

The way I see PO playing out due to priorities to society.

The first to go will be private automobiles. Eventually, the government is going to have to protect:

1. National defense.
2. Food Production.
3. Transportation system.

That means either through tax and subsidies fuel for private vehicles will get WAY expensive and food production and transportation will be subsidized. At this point we start getting economic fallout as more and more people start getting laid off and companies start scaling back. Economic growth will be a historical term at this point.

Life will be good for the self reliant crowd at this point.

Next to be restricted will be transportation. We will get to where essential commodities will have priority eventually squeezing out any other goods. Once there starts to be restrictions in transportation, you can expect economic chaos to start setting in.
Massive unemployment can be expected. Corporate bankruptsy will be at an all time high. And, I expect you have your normal 'welfare' society replaced by government distribution centers. At this point I would expect 30-40 percent unemployment.

Life for the self reliant crowd is getting difficult. They now how to protect their turf.

Due to the high unemployment and social upheaval, now you will see the reemergence of the occupation of 'highwayman'. Transportation will have to form up convoy's that are protected by paramilitary teams. Individual travel via roads will no longer be safe.

Sorry to say for the self reliant crowd, they will fall victim to the 'crowds'. If they haven't hidden it will by now they will have lost it.

As the government is no longer able to 'feed' the population (or do almost anything else due to declining tax revenues) then you will start to see total collapse. This is where our famous zombie hordes will hit the roads. They will rape anything and everything in their path. At this point, large corporate farms will not be able to operate (unless they are able to exterminate zombies with paramilitary action sanctioned by the government).

Soon all non protected food production will cease. Starvation will set in at extreme levels now. The so called 'Urban' utopias that some of our prognosticators think will evolve will be death camps as people kill each others over the last scraps.

Who is going to survive? In my opinion, there will be small agricultural 'kingdoms' evolve, where you local thugs will provide armed protection for the surf class in return for a large cut of the production. If this sound amazingly like the dark ages, that is what I'm suggesting.

What about the farming utopia put forward by the likes of Heinberg? It will be anything but utopia. You will be expected to work your ass off, keep your mouth shut, or you will find out quickly that you are expendable. If you happen to be the violent, aggressive, love a fight military type, then you will probably have a short but enjoyable life.

Eventually, way in the future, like you did after the dark ages, you will get resurgence of trade and urban centers. I think the best your are going to be able to hope for is a return to the 15th or 16th century and constant resource conflicts will keep populations at a balance with resources.

I'm sure there are a lot of holes in my 'predictions', but I read a lot about: There will be PO, then it will be bad, and then there will be utopia. I want to know what 'then it will be bad' is. With the lack of anyone else speculating, I decided to speculate on my own. This is where I have gotten so far...

Now that I have said all that. To answer the question originally asked. Food production will be protected as long as possible, so I would say 'heat' will fall long before food.