[wisconsin_cur]

Most arguments for a slow decline or some form of adaptation to declining energy reserves seem to assume that things go right. By that I mean that people transitioning to a low energy lifestyle will not make stupid mistakes (because they are learning) or be beset by bad luck (fires) or the mistakes of others (a buggy garden that exports potato bugs to your own) etc...

The fact is we do live in a world where things break, bugs invade, rain waits, fire burns and humans not accustomed to doing things for themselves make mistakes.

I know the impacts of these circumstances when times are fat. One is discouraged, mumbles under their breath, mopes around the house for a day and then eats a frozen pizza, drinks some micro brews and replaces what was lost at the grocery, seed or building supply store.

What will be the psychological impacts of these setbacks when the cost is much higher? When failure or just bad luck means the kids go to bed hungry (again)?

Peak Oil is a human problem as much as a geological one. When discouragement gives way to desperation and depression?

I don't think the masses will choose the life of a zombie hoard. Perhaps the young and unattached will choose this method of (short-term) survival.

But if you have failed your children, lost everything that you worked for and dreamed of? I would expect an increase in male suicide and suicidal violence. Whether someone decides to take others out with them will depend upon the underlying personality.

Thoughts?

[Ferretlover]

For those who woke up in time, the aftermath, IMHO, will be bittersweet: Sadness at what we had, what we wasted, what we've lost (not just tangible items).
Sweet because we've been slowly preparing ourselves here , mentally and physically, for the only possible outcome, and those we love will benefit from our "enlightenment."
As things get worse, I do think there will be an increase in family members taking the whole family with them, but that will be part of the die-off.
Of course, I could be wrong-but, I don't think so.

[RedStateGreen]

There were quite a few suicides at the start of the Depression. Many more men left their families to "look for work" and never returned. We'll see a lot more divorces.

[Iaato]

Psychologically we are used to a no-risk environment. Technology has sanitized everything to the point that there is very little risk, and if there is, there's insurance. As we start to fall back on heating with fire, transportation on foot and more tenuous types of vehicles, exposure to the elements, higher lethal and non-lethal crime rates, log-splitting and chain-saw accidents (the list goes on and on), there will have to be a substantial mental adjustment. And injury rates, permanent disability, and death will go way up. That's all part of die-off.

[Tyler_JC]

That big dip in the late 1980s/early 1990s was the fall of the USSR.

The subsequent dip in 1998 was fallout from the currency crisis.

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Iaato', 'P')sychologically we are used to a no-risk environment. Technology has sanitized everything to the point that there is very little risk, and if there is, there's insurance. As we start to fall back on heating with fire, transportation on foot and more tenuous types of vehicles, exposure to the elements, higher lethal and non-lethal crime rates, log-splitting and chain-saw accidents (the list goes on and on), there will have to be a substantial mental adjustment. And injury rates, permanent disability, and death will go way up. That's all part of die-off.

[alokin]

I'm not so sure. I think people are doing lots of nonsense in a world were they are completely satisfied, no hunger, no cold no heat..
Often nations perform much better if they have to stand together.

I read of some of the murders in school in the US an Europa recently tends to the same thing. In Australia things are lots better and people are more aware of each other.

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('alokin', 'I')'m not so sure. I think people are doing lots of nonsense in a world were they are completely satisfied, no hunger, no cold no heat..
Often nations perform much better if they have to stand together.

I read of some of the murders in school in the US an Europa recently tends to the same thing. In Australia things are lots better and people are more aware of each other.

[Ludi]

I think it is very likely people will become despairing when times get tough. India has had a terrible problem of suicides when farmers have not been able to provide for their families.


It is hard for some of us to hold off despair even thinking about the tough times ahead. I personally dread it.

[americandream]

I've been a marxist for most of my adult life...one reads Marx and realises that a system based on endless selling of finite resources has no future....it depresses you for you know that it's participants know no better. Thats the sad bit....knowing that we reside in a system that has its own dynamic and terminus and theres little one can do.

[BigTex]

We all like to think of ourselves as cool. The fact is, though, humans are very high strung. Not as bad as horses or hummingbirds, but still we're high strung. Part of what is nice about spending time in nature by yourself is you can get away from all the frantic energy of being around other people and all the wild people energy.

It's not surprising to me that the most enlightened humans are generally considered to be those who can enter into states of deep relaxation and calm whenever they want to.

You tell a human that doom is on the horizon and a lot of them just freak out. They're more like the hare than the tortoise.

[seldom_seen]

The problem that I find unsettling is when millions of people lose access to their prescriptions for SSRI medications. The serotonin crash associated with rapid withdrawal from these medications will lead to rampant suicide and most likely an explosion of murder as well.

[threadbear]

I like to think of myself as being pretty tough and resilient, but I wasn't even able to watch March Of the Penguins without leaving the room during the sad parts.

[Nano]

To me it seems you need to get to grips with the phenomenon of 'horror' in the broadest meaning of the word.

For example: the most basic buddhist meditation techniques include meditation on one's own rotting corpse in order to obtain basic wisdom and peace of mind.

By getting your head around pain, death, decay and the general temporal nature of existence you can become a real human being. Unfortunately modern (secular) humanity is encouraged not to think about these crucial aspect of life at all, let alone to begin to understand the meaning of ancient concepts such as sacrifice, humility and nobility. Instead of such fundamental wisdom we have come to rely on a seamingly limitless ocean of fossil fuel derived wealth, cheap and potent escapist entertainment and the massconsumption of high-tech anti-depressive/anti-psychotic designer drugs.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I') like to think of myself as being pretty tough and resilient, but I wasn't even able to watch March Of the Penguins without leaving the room during the sad parts.

[kpeavey]

The US is looking at an economic recession, then depression, skewed weather patterns, a government bent on fascism, and declining availability of energy all

coupled with a nearly unconscious, highly diversified population dependent on those very systems for supporting their consumption based lifestyle. What

could possibly go wrong?

As the crash progressess, peoples lives will fall apart. Can't get to work, can't find work, can't afford cable, car gets repossessed, bank forecloses, job

door closes, get evicted, bill collectors start calling, not enough food in the house, fight with the spouse, more bad news, kids need new shoes, nothing for

Christmas this year. How do people cope?

If the crash is slow, people will be able to make adjustments. Cancel Cable, turn down the thermostat, turn off the AC, take out light bulbs, drain the

swimming pool, sell the boat, have a yard sale, start a garden, expand the garden, get a roommate, move in with the folks, turn off the hot water heater

every other day, eat more pasta. The result over time is a slow but steady reduction in quality of life. Each of us has a limit to what we can endure.

Stepping past that point will bring the full human array of responses from thanking a god for what they still have to going postal. The media will report on

the postal events.

A common reaction will be Discouragement. I've been there myself. Bankruptcy, failed business, starting over with nothing. It can be an empty place. No

motivation to try anymore, just gonna get smacked down. Lost Dreams. Its all bullshit. Nothing works. Nothing to work with. Everything has failed. I

had it all, now I got nothing. I can't do this. Can't win, why try. It's hopeless. Getting past discouragement takes time. Avoiding it takes

preparation. Experience helps a lot.

What we are going to see is a wide segment of the population forced to give up those things which have made their lives comfortable. No matter how hard they

work at it, things will just get worse. It will surely get a whole lot worse before it gets better. There will be the little things. Dining out being

replaced by bagged lunch or dinner at home. There will be the big things. Foreclosure, reposession, unemployment, failed businesses. The little things

serve to move people towards their limit slowly. Its the big things that will break the camels back. We'll see people lose everything and give up hope.

We'll hear about husbands and wives who packed a bag and hit the road. We'll see discouragement spread to the spouses left behind. Kids are usually

protected from discouragement, they have bigger imaginations than adults, but they are not immune. They'll experience it on their own level. No more city

swimming pool. No more art class. Nothing for Christmas. If discouragement is allowed to fester for long enough, depression can set in. This can be hard

on a person, a family, and especially on the kids. If discouragement can be defeated, a persons limits of endurance is expanded having gone through all the

troubles.

The best tool to combat Discouragement is Hope. Of course, as the world crumbles all around, Hope will be lost to a great many. You don't need much hope to

defeat discouragement, just a shadow will do.

Discouraged people often stop trying. This goes for just about any activity from getting up in the morning to doing the dishes to doing "it". Activity is

the key. If you find yourself becoming discouraged, take action. Do something rather than nothing, even if its wrong. Activity can uncover a glimmer of

hope in an unexpected spot. Even when all hope is gone, there is always one more thing you can do.

---
If you want a long story, here's mine...
I can start off with failures and restarts going back to the mid 80's, but the Iranians will probably cut the internet line before I an get the entire story

up, so I'll start here...
13 years ago I started a candy company. I made chocolate lollipops, chocolate pizzas, mints, peanut butter cups, a whole bunch of stuff. I had them in 400

stores across New England. It was taking off. My business partner got greedy and stupid, cleaned out the accounts, the heat of summer started melting the

product in transit, gas went to $1.30/gallon, some kid was allergic to butter rum-they wanted to sue for more than I ever heard of, I owed money to suppliers

that I did not have, not enough supplies on hand to fill orders I had, lost the big account, had to deliver all my product myself, got pulled over for

expired plates, cops impounded my car 75 miles from home because they are all jack booted thugs, cost me more than I could afford to straighten that mess

out, could not afford the bar code renewal, it gets cancelled, there went more accounts, the business partner demands I account for the money I spent getting

the car right or he's going to sue me for embezzlement. Finally the car shit the bed 2 states from home. All this in about 3 months. To hell with it. I

spent the next 3 years living in my mothers basement working as a short order cook paying off debts. 8 years ago I moved to Florida with $350 in my pocket.

I own my own home-full of stuff all paid for, a new truck, make 50k a year. 19 months ago a tree fell on my house. I moved into the camper in my driveway.

The insurance company and I are still in arbitration with an end at best still 3-4 months away. I get my electricity from my neighbor, also where I shower.

My old car crapped out a couple of months after that. I had a run in with the law (small matter, concluded), then the IRS catches up with me for some taxes

I owe from 7 years ago, cleans out my bank account and garnishes my wages leaving me with $168.72/week since September. I have almost no heat. The fridge

in the camper crapped. The roof started leaking right over the bed. The bed collapsed. Someone stole my generator, tiller, chipper, and lawn mower-all

were chained up. The dogs have gotten to the chickens twice, leaving me with 5 down from 12. I stopped asking "what else can go wrong?" Add Peak Oil into

the mix and ask me if I'm discouraged.

You may find it interesting that I am not. I'm quite positive about my life in the next few months. The IRS will be paid off in another 2 weeks.
I will eventually get my money from the insurance company, most likely with damage awards for bad faith. I do have certain other sources of revenue at my

disposal, and my bills are low, so I'm still getting ahead. In mid April I start a 5 acre organic project. The new truck is running just fine. A neighbor

offered to buy my house for 2.5x what I paid. Peak Oil is making its mark as predicted. Hope is something I have in spades.

A young fellow came up to me at work, clearing some brick demolition debris from a sulfuric acid tower, and complained that this was hard work. I looked at

him and said "if you think this is hard, try paying your bills with what WalMart or McDonalds will offer you." I went over to the tank, saw some guys

resting from the heat and sweating. another young guy said it was hard work. I replied "This ain't hard work. Its a whole lot harder when there's no

work." A couple of the older guys nodded and picked their shovels back up.

---
My great-grandmother used to tell us, when the summer heat in the fields was beating down on us as we picked berries, and we would complain about the heat,

the bugs, the work, "What doesn't kill you will make you strong." She was a tough old bird.

---

For many of us, discouragement will be the enemy, taking up residence within us, our family, friends, and neighbors. Defeating discouragement will be

crucial to keep our groups going through the tough times ahead. There are things you an do with your group to keep discouragement at bay and even relieve it

from time to time
-Offer hope and encouragement to others when they need it. A gentle hand at the right time can often go further than a harsh word.
-Finds things to do to stay busy, keeping peoples minds off their troubles.
-Keep people talking. Talking keeps the mind working, even just a little, and relieves stress.
-In stocking your cache, be sure to include dignity items. Hard candy, gravy, a little cologne or makeup, some toys for the kids, some games everyone can

join in. Cards take up very little space. Little things can keep up peoples spirits.
-Always have a plan. A plan offers hope, even a bad one is better than no plan, you can always improve on the plan as you go.
-Tell a joke every now and then when people are down, working hard, suffering. The therapeutic effects of a smile should never be discounted.
-While you have time now, learn to do things in a low energy way. Cooking different recipes with basic ingredients that taste good can improve morale in the

future.
-Try going without something in particular now. This can give you much needed experience in the future to cope with a shortage.
-When the time comes, share your experience with the people around you.
-Don't complain. The only thing it can do is reinforce discouragement.

[furrydog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'M')ost arguments for a slow decline or some form of adaptation to declining energy reserves seem to assume that things go right. By that I mean that people transitioning to a low energy lifestyle will not make stupid mistakes (because they are learning) or be beset by bad luck (fires) or the mistakes of others (a buggy garden that exports potato bugs to your own) etc...

The fact is we do live in a world where things break, bugs invade, rain waits, fire burns and humans not accustomed to doing things for themselves make mistakes.

I know the impacts of these circumstances when times are fat. One is discouraged, mumbles under their breath, mopes around the house for a day and then eats a frozen pizza, drinks some micro brews and replaces what was lost at the grocery, seed or building supply store.

What will be the psychological impacts of these setbacks when the cost is much higher? When failure or just bad luck means the kids go to bed hungry (again)?

Peak Oil is a human problem as much as a geological one. When discouragement gives way to desperation and depression?

I don't think the masses will choose the life of a zombie hoard. Perhaps the young and unattached will choose this method of (short-term) survival.

But if you have failed your children, lost everything that you worked for and dreamed of? I would expect an increase in male suicide and suicidal violence. Whether someone decides to take others out with them will depend upon the underlying personality.

Thoughts?