A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.
by I_Like_Plants » Sun 10 Feb 2008, 14:51:19
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PopeGideon', 'T')he family earning 48 a year likely pays less than a few grand in federal taxes each year.
The rich pay almost all of the taxes in this country.
Bullshit. When I made $5 an hour, I was paying 25% in taxes, and getting a couple'a hundred back at refund time. When I made $9-$11 an hour, same thing.
25%. Or more.
Making a lot more, grossing $70-$80k, I was paying a few thou a year in taxes. Generally LESS than I was paying as an $11 an hour wage slave.
The little guy pays the bulk of the taxes in the US. Ask your server at Subway or the guy who's cleaning the floors in your office, how much is taken off of their paycheck and how much they get at refund time and do the math.
I never heard of the earned income credit until I started grossing serious money and had an accountant doing my taxes for me (you have to, when running a small biz.)
And US'ians are not paying less taxes than their european counterparts, and they get far less in social services and safety net for their tax dollar.
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by kublikhan » Sun 10 Feb 2008, 22:37:29
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PopeGideon', '
')The family earning 48 a year likely pays less than a few grand in federal taxes each year. The rich pay almost all of the taxes in this country.
Bullshit. When I made $5 an hour, I was paying 25% in taxes, and getting a couple'a hundred back at refund time. When I made $9-$11 an hour, same thing. 25%. Or more.
Making a lot more, grossing $70-$80k, I was paying a few thou a year in taxes. Generally LESS than I was paying as an $11 an hour wage slave. The little guy pays the bulk of the taxes in the US. Ask your server at Subway or the guy who's cleaning the floors in your office, how much is taken off of their paycheck and how much they get at refund time and do the math.I never heard of the earned income credit until I started grossing serious money and had an accountant doing my taxes for me (you have to, when running a small biz.)
And US'ians are not less taxes than their european counterparts, and they get far less in social services and safety net for their tax dollar.
Wow. There's so much bullshit in that post I don't know where to start. They guy at subway pays more taxes than the guy making $70-80$ a year? Americans pay more taxes than Europeans?
America vs Europe:
"[US] Government at all levels collected taxes equal to about 26% of the U.S. economy's total output last year. That is less than the tax take in most European countries. Sweden has a tax burden of about 50%, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development; Germany has about 36%."
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB ... in_tff_top
Rich vs poor:
"based on a recent study by the Congressional Budget Office showing that the bottom two income quintiles (20% of households) paid no federal income taxes in the aggregate in 2004"
The top 50 percent of taxpayers paid 96 percent of income taxes.
The bottom 50 percent paid just 4 percent.
"Overall, we find that America’s lowest-earning one-fifth of households received roughly $8.21 in government spending for each dollar of taxes paid in 2004. Households with middle-incomes received $1.30 per tax dollar, and America’s highest-earning households received $0.41. Government spending targeted at the lowest-earning 60 percent of U.S. households is larger than what they paid in federal, state and local taxes. In 2004, between $1.03 trillion and $1.53 trillion was redistributed downward from the two highest income quintiles to the three lowest income quintiles through government taxes and spending policy"
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20465
http://www.ncpa.org/oped/bartlett/oct1899.html
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/2286.html
$5.00 wage and taxes owed:
$5 X 20 hours a week X 50 weeks a year = $5,000 income
No income tax owed
payroll tax owed = 6.75% , not 25%
The oil barrel is half-full.
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kublikhan
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by Concerned » Mon 11 Feb 2008, 06:09:03
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PopeGideon', 'T')he family earning 48 a year likely pays less than a few grand in federal taxes each year. The rich pay almost all of the taxes in this country.
Bullshit. When I made $5 an hour, I was paying 25% in taxes, and getting a couple'a hundred back at refund time. When I made $9-$11 an hour, same thing. 25%. Or more.
Making a lot more, grossing $70-$80k, I was paying a few thou a year in taxes. Generally LESS than I was paying as an $11 an hour wage slave. The little guy pays the bulk of the taxes in the US. Ask your server at Subway or the guy who's cleaning the floors in your office, how much is taken off of their paycheck and how much they get at refund time and do the math.I never heard of the earned income credit until I started grossing serious money and had an accountant doing my taxes for me (you have to, when running a small biz.)
And US'ians are not paying less taxes than their european counterparts, and they get far less in social services and safety net for their tax dollar.
Wow. There's so much bullshit in that post I don't know where to start.
It's ok you just consume sound bytes without "thinking" for yourself. You are middle class and comfortable know that people around the world have it much worse off than you. So you just want to perpetuate the system which you suckle from every day.
Irrespective of the hypocrisy and double standards you hold. One of the biggest being you believe in the free movement of capital for example but not the free movement of labor unless that labor is free to move within national bounds.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hey guy at subway pays more taxes than the guy making $70-80$ a year? Americans pay more taxes than Europeans?
Before picking up your Koran and foaming at the mouth try thinking for two seconds. The guy at subway pays more as a percentage. Not only that his taxation is hidden in that his wages are not a true reflection of what value he/she is producing. Whereas the clown earning $30 million per year has income totally out of kilter with the reality of his economic production. These same clowns are raining destruction on the global equity markets right now. (anyhow nother story)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')merica vs Europe: "[US] Government at all levels collected taxes equal to about 26% of the U.S. economy's total output last year. That is less than the tax take in most European countries. Sweden has a tax burden of about 50%, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development; Germany has about 36%."
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB ... in_tff_top
by kublikhan » Mon 11 Feb 2008, 15:20:07
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', 'I')t's ok you just consume sound bytes without "thinking" for yourself. You are middle class and comfortable know that people around the world have it much worse off than you. So you just want to perpetuate the system which you suckle from every day.
Irrespective of the hypocrisy and double standards you hold. One of the biggest being you believe in the free movement of capital for example but not the free movement of labor unless that labor is free to move within national bounds.
Wow. I call plantman on his bullshit and now you are making sweeping generalizations about me. Did I say one word about labour movements? Movement of capital? The plight of the poor? Nice little strawman you got going there. Can't refute my facts so you twist my argument so it is easier to attack.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', 'B')efore picking up your Koran and foaming at the mouth try thinking for two seconds. The guy at subway pays more as a percentage. Not only that his taxation is hidden in that his wages are not a true reflection of what value he/she is producing. Whereas the clown earning $30 million per year has income totally out of kilter with the reality of his economic production. These same clowns are raining destruction on the global equity markets right now. (anyhow nother story)
Before spouting off at me, try a little reading comprehension next time. He said DOLLARS, not percent. Are you seriously trying to defend this statement: "Making a lot more, grossing $70-$80k, I was paying a few thou a year in taxes. Generally LESS than I was paying as an $11 an hour wage slave. The little guy pays the bulk of the taxes in the US."
And for your information, No, I don't think its fair the CEO makes $30 million while his peons make $5 an hour. But go ahead and keeping spouting off.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', 'I') think the point was that for the taxes collected those nations don't spend it having the highest per capita prison population in the world or bombing and occupying countries for arbitrary reasons. Instead these people in Europe get their money wasted on things like free health care, great public infrastructure and social welfare programs. Yeah sad isn't it things that actually help joe sixpack rather than Mr CEO.
I did not rebuttal the point about europeans having better services or that the US is a war mongering nation. I rebuttaled the point that Europeans pay less in taxes:
"And US'ians are not less taxes than their european counterparts"
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', 'T')hinking of some quote about lies and statistics. But feel free to believe anything you want. When the people riot in the street and burn houses and cars to the ground, just remember "I told you so"
So now I am speaking lies? Please, provide one source that contradicts anything I posted above. And what exactly are you going to be gloating about when you tell me "I told you so?" Did I say "screw the poor?" No I did not. I was only rebutting the bullshit that was in the previous post. But feel free to paint me as a war mongering capitalist pig who is going to be roasted by the proletariat if it makes you feel better.
The oil barrel is half-full.
by Concerned » Mon 11 Feb 2008, 16:20:44
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', ' ')So now I am speaking lies? Please, provide one source that contradicts anything I posted above.
www.google.com
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
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by threadbear » Mon 11 Feb 2008, 16:28:40
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJames', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'B')y the entitlement crowd, do you mean CEO's.
The entitlement mentality crowd I'm speaking of are primarily the low income people that think the world owes them a living. They believe in redistribution of wealth, they're generally opposed to free market capitalism and blame everyone but themselves for their shortcomings, failures and their lower standard of living. They love to bash people that have worked hard, saved money and made wise investments. They also find great comfort commiserating with others in their situation that believe the government, the state, big business and the wealthy are conspiring to hold them down. Many will never come to the realization that they're poor attitudes, drug use, criminal backgrounds, driving records, spending habits and lack of discipline, skills, education and work ethic is preventing them from becoming successful.
There are very few people who meet this description.Most people critical of your backward system are what you would describe as successful.
by Concerned » Mon 11 Feb 2008, 16:31:50
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJames', ' ')Fortunately through offshoring, outsourcing efficiency and automation, costs can lowered and employees can be eliminated.
Unfortunately this can only last so long as history has proven over and over again. When the general mass of population gets pushed into a corner they often revolt with often RADICAL choices for their nations future direction. (Or they can just shut up and die Irish/Ukraine/Indian/Chinese famines)
Bad decisions may include a selection of wealthy go getters heads sitting on top of a wooden pikes, followed by the pathological butchering of undesirables usually some minority.
What the heck no job? Let them eat cake !!
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
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by Concerned » Mon 11 Feb 2008, 16:33:35
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJames', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'B')y the entitlement crowd, do you mean CEO's.
The entitlement mentality crowd I'm speaking of are primarily the low income people that think the world owes them a living. They believe in redistribution of wealth, they're generally opposed to free market capitalism and blame everyone but themselves for their shortcomings, failures and their lower standard of living. They love to bash people that have worked hard, saved money and made wise investments. They also find great comfort commiserating with others in their situation that believe the government, the state, big business and the wealthy are conspiring to hold them down. Many will never come to the realization that they're poor attitudes, drug use, criminal backgrounds, driving records, spending habits and lack of discipline, skills, education and work ethic is preventing them from becoming successful.
There are very few people who meet this description.Most people critical of your backward system are what you would describe as successful.
Very true. A quick look at Red and Blue states tells you alot.
by kublikhan » Mon 11 Feb 2008, 16:53:28
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', ' ')So now I am speaking lies? Please, provide one source that contradicts anything I posted above.
www.google.com I'll take your lack of response as acquiescing to my position.
The oil barrel is half-full.
by Concerned » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 05:44:46
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', ' ')So now I am speaking lies? Please, provide one source that contradicts anything I posted above.
www.google.com Ill take your lack of response as acquiescing to my position.
Just add it to your list of delusions. No skin off my nose.
by wisconsin_cur » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 09:43:03
Not that this is news here but
NYTimes: Crisis spreads beyond Sub-prime
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s home prices fall and banks tighten lending standards, people with good, or prime, credit histories are falling behind on their payments for home loans, auto loans and credit cards at a quickening pace, according to industry data and economists
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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by MarkJames » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 13:53:45
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJames', ' ')Fortunately through offshoring, outsourcing efficiency and automation, costs can lowered and employees can be eliminated.
Unfortunately this can only last so long as history has proven over and over again. When the general mass of population gets pushed into a corner they often revolt with often RADICAL choices for their nations future direction.
Downsizing, offshoring, outsourcing and wageless robotic production can go on as long as people pay taxes, people spend money and as long as we continue to have jobs, self employment opportunities and social programs.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'T')he entitlement mentality crowd I'm speaking of are primarily the low income people that think the world owes them a living. They believe in redistribution of wealth, they're generally opposed to free market capitalism and blame everyone but themselves for their shortcomings, failures and their lower standard of living. They love to bash people that have worked hard, saved money and made wise investments. They also find great comfort commiserating with others in their situation that believe the government, the state, big business and the wealthy are conspiring to hold them down. Many will never come to the realization that they're poor attitudes, drug use, criminal backgrounds, driving records, spending habits and lack of discipline, skills, education and work ethic is preventing them from becoming successful.
Until you lose your job, get old, develop heath problems, lose your medical insurance, your spouse dies, you get in a serious auto accident, your investments turn to shit, ete!
Of course it can't happen to you.
[/quote]
I'm talking about Able-Bodied people, not people that can't work, won't work or can only perform limited tasks due to injury, physical or mental disability.
Of course many people with a high amount of debt without insurance, savings, assets and diverse investments are often SOL due to their debt load or divorce, child support, injury, death, disability, sickness, job loss, foreclosure, home repairs, vehicle repairs, fire, theft, vandalism etc.
Many of the homes, many of the building lots and much of the acreage I've purchased from distressed owners, or through county tax auctions and bank foreclosures are due to a number of these issues.
by kublikhan » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 14:42:43
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Concerned', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', ' ')So now I am speaking lies? Please, provide one source that contradicts anything I posted above.
www.google.com I'll take your lack of response as acquiescing to my position.
Just add it to your list of delusions. No skin off my nose.
First you call me a liar. Then when I ask a very simple question about what I am lying about, you blow me off and call me delusional. Is it possible for you to have a rational conversation on these boards, or do you just spend you time flinging insults at people and wrapping yourself in a blanket of self-righteousness?
The oil barrel is half-full.
by kublikhan » Tue 12 Feb 2008, 17:05:32
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '"')Wow. There's so much bullshit in that post I don't know where to start."
Quote--Kublikhan
You too are insulting.
I can at least form a rational argument. Concerned just calls me a delusional liar with no rational argument whatsoever.
The oil barrel is half-full.
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kublikhan
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by Concerned » Wed 13 Feb 2008, 08:06:35
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '"')Wow. There's so much bullshit in that post I don't know where to start."
Quote--Kublikhan
You too are insulting.
I can at least form a rational argument. Concerned just calls me a delusional liar with no rational argument whatsoever.
I was and continue to be wrong. You have presented a factually correct ironclad discussion of your views. Your views are beyond question or reproach.
My apologies for challenging you, I stand corrected and converted on every point you have raised.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
