It's getting harder and harder not to be poor. I suppose the way not to be poor is to live on what you have. Spend less than you make. Even if you have to cut your budget, if you are spending less than you make you are still not that poor.
Cook a lot of beans. I lived on pots of beans in Guatemala. A pressure cooker is nice, but so is a beanpot on the woodstove.
Learn to like the little stuff that happens in your town.
Make every trip count. I pick up wood that has no nails or paint whenever I go to the dump. It's free BTU's.
Turn any dollars you get into things which will save you money.
Example: buy a battery charger and rechargable batteries.
Use the public library. Lots of great stuff there, and it's free!
Help your neighbors out with things. They will then owe you when you need something done.
PeakOil is You
Advice to poor.
Re: Advice to poor.
by Revi » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 23:10:50
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
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Re: Advice to poor.
by I_Like_Plants » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 23:27:01
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'I')t's getting harder and harder not to be poor. I suppose the way not to be poor is to live on what you have.
It probably takes an income of $200k to live what's considered true "middle class" in the US. If you're making $50k, you're poor. If you're making $100k, you're not that far from poor.
Down at the far end, making $10k - $10k a year, you ARE poor-poor, you're not going to suddenly become middle class after slogging along for X many years, so wake up.
Little stuff like mending clothes, doing my own ironing, getting a generator-light for my bike instead of a light that needs batteries, using the library for recreation, that was just how a person lived. Looking back I can see that was considered "living poor". I could hardly wait to somehow become middle class, and it never happened. In fact, over the past 30 years, things have gone consistently DOWN. Less pay, more expense for food etc., less security, etc.
Just get used to the idea that the US is going to be like post - WWII Italy in a few years and learn to like it.
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Re: Advice to poor.
by Revi » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 23:45:51
We only recently climbed up into the lower middle class, so back to poor is a drag. We're used to it.
I suppose you have to accept that this is the way it is.
I have been trying to savor the last few years of our meagre lifestyle, because it isn't going to last.
We were walking around in a poor part of Waterville, Maine yesterday and noticed that about a quarter of the duplexes and apartment buildings were empty. They had no tenants at all.
The poor can't afford to live in Maine.
Some of the houses had energy bills stuffed in the door.
They moved out. It costs a lot just to heat a house here.
Better to be poor somewhere else I guess.
I suppose you have to accept that this is the way it is.
I have been trying to savor the last few years of our meagre lifestyle, because it isn't going to last.
We were walking around in a poor part of Waterville, Maine yesterday and noticed that about a quarter of the duplexes and apartment buildings were empty. They had no tenants at all.
The poor can't afford to live in Maine.
Some of the houses had energy bills stuffed in the door.
They moved out. It costs a lot just to heat a house here.
Better to be poor somewhere else I guess.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
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Re: Advice to poor.
by I_Like_Plants » Mon 04 Feb 2008, 23:54:43
I think being poor and living in Maine will require being able to get wood for free and heat with it, and going back to a lifestyle that may resemble that of more than 100 years ago than now.
I've lived in Colorado Springs on very little, but I rented a room and heat was part of the package. $200 a month. And that was because the old lady who owned the house was rich - she'd not consider herself rich, but she had a house, a car, good food. etc. And didn't still have to work in her 80s. She was a very nice lady too.
In cold areas you get blocky buildings and people in effect huddling together for warmth - you can see this in Germany or in our nearest town of Prescott.
The tropics and semi-tropics aren't Heaven but to me it beats enforced sedentariness, no work, little socialization if any, etc for 4 or more months. This place is driving me nuts, I can't imagine how it is up there. You must not see anyone for 6 months at a stretch.
I've lived in Colorado Springs on very little, but I rented a room and heat was part of the package. $200 a month. And that was because the old lady who owned the house was rich - she'd not consider herself rich, but she had a house, a car, good food. etc. And didn't still have to work in her 80s. She was a very nice lady too.
In cold areas you get blocky buildings and people in effect huddling together for warmth - you can see this in Germany or in our nearest town of Prescott.
The tropics and semi-tropics aren't Heaven but to me it beats enforced sedentariness, no work, little socialization if any, etc for 4 or more months. This place is driving me nuts, I can't imagine how it is up there. You must not see anyone for 6 months at a stretch.
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Re: Advice to poor.
by pup55 » Tue 05 Feb 2008, 00:10:47
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'p')oor in the US could have it worse. A lot worse
Better listen to RedStateGreen. Those are some pretty good ideas.
Gotta add a couple of things, since I like to think in numbers;
US Census Bureau
According to the most recent government definition, "poor" is mainly defined by how much money you make (some fraction of the median income) and also by the number of people living in your household.
If you are a single person, under 65, living by yourself, "poor" is about $9600 per year, which comes out to about $5.15 per hour, a minimum wage worker that shows up every day.
If you are trying to feed a family of nine, you had better be making about $40K per year. Obviously this varies slightly by region of the country and urban versus rural.
So on the basis of this, I have to add, in addition to everything above, do not, under any circumstances, skimp on birth control. A further thing to be thankful for is not having a lot of non-productive household members, whining, defecating uncontrollably in their clothing, getting sick and needing medical care, and taking a lot of your spare time in unnecessary interaction, that you could be using for more interesting purposes, such as following the Weekly Petroleum Status Report.
Where a lot of the "poor" get into trouble is the fact that they often have two or three of these freeloaders around them all the time. In this society, unfortunately, females are particularly vulnerable to this. Males may also have child support funds extracted from them by the authorities. In either case, this seriously cramps your style. Unfortunately a lot of people got this message after the fact, or not at all.
You are definitely on the right track seeking out an alliance/hanging out with a friend for awhile. If you get some money, be sure to chip some in to avoid him or her accusing you of being a mooch.
The following link gives statistics for the distribution of net worth for Americans.
US Census Bureau #2
As of 2000, the "lowest quintile", that is, the amount at which 20% of the country has a lower net worth than you, is $7200. Add a little for inflation, and maybe this is up to $8K. This is subject to revision, of course, since per the above, there are a lot of people with a house full of plasma TV's and a lot of fancy cars in the driveway who have negative net worth, but if you do not like income as a measurement of poverty, maybe this will suffice. If you have a paid off Toyota Camry and no credit card debt, you are probably above this level already. The uppermost quintile, by the way, was $161K.
Now people can, and do, complain all the time about these measurements of "poverty" and how "you can't live on $5.15 per hour"and all that, but, I will not get into this argument yet. What this goes to show is that there are a lot of people below this level, all the more reason to count your blessings.
Suffice it to say, you might already not be "poor" as officially defined by the government.
Now what might be true is, because of your lifestyle choices, bombardment advertising, your parents/spouse/kids ragging you, and other societal pressures, you feel that your current income is not bountiful enough to give you satisfaction, self-esteem, enjoyment, or social status. It is hard not to fall into that trap, as we all know. But, this is, to a big extent, a matter of attitude, and if you are willing to fire back at your detractors to the effect that you are not poor, the stats say you are not poor, you are spiritually comfortable with your lifestyle, and they can shove it, as long as you are fine with it yourself, no worries. Now, of course, if you feel compelled to get all the way up to, say, the middle class, this is a different proposition and requires a slightly different skill set. This whole idea of social mobility is a completely different issue than mere poverty avoidance.
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Re: Advice to poor.
by FreakOil » Tue 05 Feb 2008, 02:07:03
I just had the post the lyrics to an old Sinatra song that I love:
I got plenty of nothing
And nothing is plenty for me.
I got no car,
Got no mule,
Got no misery
Folks with plenty of plenty
They got a lock on the door
Afraid somebody’s gonna rob them while
They’re out making more
What for?
I got no lock on the door
That’s no way to be
They can steal the rug
From the floor
That’s OK with me
Cause the things that I prize
Like the stars in the sky
Are all free
Say I’ve got plenty of nothing
And nothing is plenty for me.
I got my girl
Got my song,
Got heaven the whole daylong.
Got my girl
Got my lawn
Got my song
I’ve got plenty of nothing
And nothing is plenty for me.
I got my girl
Got my song,
Got heaven the whole daylong.
Got my girl
Got my lawn
Got my song
I live very simply. I'm saving money and making huge student loan payments so that I can rid myself of debt forever. Bread and butter is good. Long walks along the esplanade are fun. Fishing is fantastic, if you can get to a good spot without an automobile.
Find a good used bookstore. Fruit vendors sell bruised items for super-cheap; just cut the crappy part off and enjoy! And you most definitely do not need a fancy gym membership to get in shape. I used to go to a gym, now I jog and do push-ups and pull-ups. I'm in better shape than I've been in a long time.
Thanks Pup55 for the China post. I think half of the time I spend on this site, I say something similar. It must really annoy people. Did you hear about the guy who got killed by molten metal? Apparently, a whole vat of some sort of molten metal just broke and fell on him. What a horrible way to go.
I got plenty of nothing
And nothing is plenty for me.
I got no car,
Got no mule,
Got no misery
Folks with plenty of plenty
They got a lock on the door
Afraid somebody’s gonna rob them while
They’re out making more
What for?
I got no lock on the door
That’s no way to be
They can steal the rug
From the floor
That’s OK with me
Cause the things that I prize
Like the stars in the sky
Are all free
Say I’ve got plenty of nothing
And nothing is plenty for me.
I got my girl
Got my song,
Got heaven the whole daylong.
Got my girl
Got my lawn
Got my song
I’ve got plenty of nothing
And nothing is plenty for me.
I got my girl
Got my song,
Got heaven the whole daylong.
Got my girl
Got my lawn
Got my song
I live very simply. I'm saving money and making huge student loan payments so that I can rid myself of debt forever. Bread and butter is good. Long walks along the esplanade are fun. Fishing is fantastic, if you can get to a good spot without an automobile.
Find a good used bookstore. Fruit vendors sell bruised items for super-cheap; just cut the crappy part off and enjoy! And you most definitely do not need a fancy gym membership to get in shape. I used to go to a gym, now I jog and do push-ups and pull-ups. I'm in better shape than I've been in a long time.
Thanks Pup55 for the China post. I think half of the time I spend on this site, I say something similar. It must really annoy people. Did you hear about the guy who got killed by molten metal? Apparently, a whole vat of some sort of molten metal just broke and fell on him. What a horrible way to go.
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Re: Advice to poor.
by Dukkha » Tue 05 Feb 2008, 06:34:53
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'I')f you think about the 300 million or so that were born in the US and most of Canada, the maybe 300 million that were born in Europe, and then maybe another 300 million that were born to the elite classes in Asia and other continents, that's a billion people, the remaining 5 billion people on earth have squat for posessions, live a short, miserable life in a country where no one wants them, and if they are really "lucky" have a few kids that have an excellent chance to live life just as miserable as the current generation.
What? Your idea seems to be that if you're not a privileged westerner - or a third world imitation, some kind of rip-off copy of the western bourgeoisie, knocked up in a sweatshop on the outskirts of Shanghai - you're utterly beyond salvation. Not so. The western model does not exhaust the possibilities of human existence; not being Paris Hilton does not entail being a starving Ethiopian. This logic (I'm wealthy; I lead a 'good' (?) life; they're not wealthy; therefore they must lead a 'bad' life) just doesn't reflect reality. I live in rural Thailand and the people with whom I live, by and large, fall into the category of those "have squat for posessions" but it's absolutely not the case that this means that they "live a short, miserable life". The reason I choose to live in Thailand rather than in my home country (England) is precisely because the culture has such vitality, joy, and life. Of course there are millions in the world who've drawn the short straw and who are condemned to what is unquestionably a miserable life but this does not exhaust the possible descriptions of the global non-elite and nor does it mean that those who do live in abject poverty are - or are reducible to being - deviant or defective copies of westerners.
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Re: Advice to poor.
by kpeavey » Tue 05 Feb 2008, 07:50:20
enclave
Hey, that just rolls off the keyboard...real smooth...NICE
enclave
enclave
enclave
Hey, that just rolls off the keyboard...real smooth...NICE
enclave
enclave
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If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
_____
twenty centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, and what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
-George Yeats
-George Orwell, 1984
_____
twenty centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, and what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
-George Yeats
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Re: Advice to poor.
by pup55 » Tue 05 Feb 2008, 09:24:36
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')our idea seems to be that if you're not a privileged westerner - you're utterly beyond salvation.
I am not saying this at all. What I am saying is that in many of these lands, people are putting up with some terrible conditions, and that the American poor have it pretty good, in the grand scheme of things.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i')t's absolutely not the case that this means that they "live a short, miserable life
Thailand's life expectancy is over 72 years, much longer than their nearby neighbor Bangladesh. They have managed to reduce their birth rate to 1.64 children per female, which is below the replacement rate.
Thailand
Arable land, about 140,000 square km, to feed 65 million people, only about 461 people per square km, which I think is a little better than Mexico and not even in the same category as some of the places we have been talking about lately.
Gotta watch out who you party with, though. 1.65% with AIDS.
Apparently the thing that saved them is that they were never colonized by either the Brits or even worse, the Germans. This whole sense of work ethic, and need to aspire to some level of achievement apparently was derived from these cultures.
I have not been to Thailand myself, but have been in this region, and bumped into a few of these characters, and find them to be fun loving, and kind of spiritual, no doubt because of their Buddhist influence.
I hope they can keep it up. They also need to be thankful of how good they have it.
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