[vampyregirl]

Lets go back in time for a moment. to 1907. Competing technologies include the traditional steam engine and the new internal combustion engine. Sources of power include steam, gasoline, diesel and corn ethanol.
Gasoline won out as the main fuel for automobiles. It could be produced faster and cheaper than the other esources. the diesel engine replaced the steam engine for ocean transport and eventually for running locomotives. Today the old steam engine is a relic from the past.
If some members of this forum had been around back then they probably would have been naysayers, saying the ICE could never replace steam.
Now lets fast forward 60 years or so. Diesel are used to power automobiles in large numbers. But diesel, while more efficient than gasoline engines is dirtier burning. But with modern technology its not.
Now today we have competing technologies and resources. Diesel, low sulfur and now syndiesel is coming into the mix as well. Diesel is making a major comeback. Gasoline, the old workhouse is is losing ground. Ethanol is trying to gain a foothold. Then we have hydrogen fuel cells. Then we have hybrids which can run a certain distance on electrical charge then have to be recharged or switch to internal combustion.
Which technology will become dominant? Whichever one is marketed the fastest and cheapest. Same as in the days of old.
When i finish my training an become a full fledged analyst part of my job will be reading market trends and advising the company accordingly. So i might as well start now. Like i have said before i predict Diesel to become dominant in the near future. The distant future should be interesting

[Tyler_JC]

Diesel is a petroleum derivative.

I find it rather unlikely that the fuel of the future is something that is already in decline.

Unless you're talking about bio-diesel, but you didn't specify.

[vampyregirl]

I am talking about a combination of Diesel technologies including conventional diesel, Syndiesel and biodiesels as well. I believe it is the fuel of the immediate future. Sorry i didn't specify that to begin with.

[KillTheHumans]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'D')iesel is a petroleum derivative.

[DavidFolks]

While I hope to see more in the way of electrification, I understand there will be a need for power generation that uses liquid fuel.

To that end, diesel is a proven technology that is one of the best (read most elegant) solutions.

Diesel engines are the simplest form of internal combustion engine. Fewer moving parts than their gasoline counterparts, and they have the added bonus of being able to operate on any combustible that can be delivered to the engine. The very first demonstration of the diesel engine was performed using penut oil as a fuel.

Add the 20% greater efficiency, and it's a combination that's hard to beat.

Don't get me wrong... I think that the best course to take for land transport is electrification... Trains, automobiles, electric assist HPV's... And I think that using hydrogen, either in fuel cells or by combustion, has huge potential...

But if we must have ICE's, diesel is the way to go.

[drew]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DavidFolks', '
')To that end, diesel is a proven technology that is one of the best (read most elegant) solutions.

[DavidFolks]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('drew', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DavidFolks', '
')To that end, diesel is a proven technology that is one of the best (read most elegant) solutions.

[evilgenius]

I think the problem with hyrdrogen is that it's really hard to come up with a fuel tank that can carry enough fuel to go very far and refuel in a short period of time. Right now, I heard somewhere, a tank strong enough to hold enough hydrogen to compete with a gasoline powered car in terms of distance on a tankful would be as big as the car itself because of the compression of the fuel and strength of the tank needed to store so much fuel.

Batteries are a real pain to recharge quickly as well. They are fine for a hundred miles or so, otherwise you gain a lot of weight by adding more batteries in order to gain distance. If they recharged quickly then it would be possible to use recharging stations in a network. There too lies a problem, however, because of the distances involved between existing towns and cities. Many places in the world are too far apart for recharging every 110 miles to be a viable answer. Many places don't have a grid that could handle the load that battery recharging would place on it either. Alt energy attached to the stations that recharge could help, as could supercapacitors at the stations that store said energy until it is demanded for recharging.

A combination of ICE and batteries (hybrids) is proving to overcome many of the problems. It at least gives the battery people a chance to innovate us out of the distance predicament. Superconductivity at room temperature could help them make the advances. Supercapacitor advances under the hood could help as well.

I don't think America has yet to embrace common rail fuel injection for deisels. Common rail is what Smart cars use. It uses magnetically controlled injectors for precise intake metering. Smart cars get over seventy miles per gallon using common rail and light weight.

[drew]

The ignition systems on gas have actually decreased in mech. complexity. You no longer have much in the way of moving parts, if any. They are now more like dirt bikes from years back. Those used a black box (ignition curve, capacitors, etc), a pick up coil, fixed flywheel magnets, and a coil. We now have this with modern cars. New engines no longer have spark plug wires in some cases. I.E. the coil is directly attached to the spark plug.

In contrast the fuel systems are very complicated now compared to a carb.

Diesel have always used an insanely precise and complicated injector pump mechanism which happens to be very reliable. It is inefficient outside of certain operating parameters which is why it has pretty much been superceded by very complicated electronic control systems.

The new diesels are a wonder nevertheless.

I would buy one in a heartbeat if I could afford one.

Drew

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vampyregirl', 'L')ets go back in time for a moment. to 1907. Competing technologies include the traditional steam engine and the new internal combustion engine. Sources of power include steam, gasoline, diesel and corn ethanol.
Gasoline won out as the main fuel for automobiles. It could be produced faster and cheaper than the other esources. the diesel engine replaced the steam engine for ocean transport and eventually for running locomotives. Today the old steam engine is a relic from the past.
If some members of this forum had been around back then they probably would have been naysayers, saying the ICE could never replace steam.
Now lets fast forward 60 years or so. Diesel are used to power automobiles in large numbers. But diesel, while more efficient than gasoline engines is dirtier burning. But with modern technology its not.
Now today we have competing technologies and resources. Diesel, low sulfur and now syndiesel is coming into the mix as well. Diesel is making a major comeback. Gasoline, the old workhouse is is losing ground. Ethanol is trying to gain a foothold. Then we have hydrogen fuel cells. Then we have hybrids which can run a certain distance on electrical charge then have to be recharged or switch to internal combustion.
Which technology will become dominant? Whichever one is marketed the fastest and cheapest. Same as in the days of old.
When i finish my training an become a full fledged analyst part of my job will be reading market trends and advising the company accordingly. So i might as well start now. Like i have said before i predict Diesel to become dominant in the near future. The distant future should be interesting

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('drew', 'I') couldn't agree more, aside from particulate pollution but......

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KillTheHumans', '
')But diesel engines can run on more than diesel, unlike gasoline engines. You can dump all kinds of oily biomass substances into a diesel engine and it'll work. french fry grease, coconut oil, palm oil, olive oil, etc etc. Diesel from crude is just much easier than coming up with tons of peanut oil to put in your fuel tank.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'T')his is not necessarily the case with all engines anymore. There are horror stories of SVO conversions of VW tdis.

[KillTheHumans]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KillTheHumans', '
')But diesel engines can run on more than diesel, unlike gasoline engines. You can dump all kinds of oily biomass substances into a diesel engine and it'll work. french fry grease, coconut oil, palm oil, olive oil, etc etc. Diesel from crude is just much easier than coming up with tons of peanut oil to put in your fuel tank.

[vampyregirl]

the BMW Hydrogen7 is not a fuel cell car as I said in another post. A fuel cell converts hydrogen to electricity, BMW Hydrogen7 engine burns hydrogen like gasoline.
It is specially designed to run on either hydrogen or gasoline. AWESOME!!!!
So how much does it cost? Well since I have to ask i probably couldn't afford it

[Prince]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vampyregirl', 't')he BMW Hydrogen7 is not a fuel cell car as I said in another post. A fuel cell converts hydrogen to electricity, BMW Hydrogen7 engine burns hydrogen like gasoline.
It is specially designed to run on either hydrogen or gasoline. AWESOME!!!!
So how much does it cost? Well since I have to ask i probably couldn't afford it

[drew]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('drew', 'D')iesel have always used an insanely precise and complicated injector pump mechanism which happens to be very reliable. It is inefficient outside of certain operating parameters which is why it has pretty much been superceded by very complicated electronic control systems.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('drew', 'T')he newer systems allow for a much broader range of pulse length, quantity and timing than a traditional pump which has much more closely fixed parameters.

The results: more power over a wider powerband, better economy, no more huge clouds of black smoke

Of course this kills two birds with one stone doesn't it?

[oilluber]

vampy girl, don't want to discourage you but,
the auto companies probably spend hundreds of millions of $$
each year over what you are thinking.

I really don't think any significant solution is at hand...
the manufacturers are just dying to increase mpg,
so that driving and auto sales would ramp up again.

What ever news you discover is old news that has been
disclosed to the public by the industry.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KillTheHumans', '
')And I just KNEW that somewhere in there, between shoddy VW quality and who knows what which you missed filtering out of the french fry grease, was bound to be something which would mess up the works.