[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '
')I don't knock marriage though, it can be a wonderful thing.

[FreakOil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'u')nburdened by a wife and children,

[wisconsin_cur]

My critique of the use of "burden" is philosophical. We have gone too far, in my opinion, in thinking of people as either assets or burdens. We have made people commodities to be bought or sold, or to be sent off to old folks homes when they get in our way or need care or upset our apple cart. The same can be true of spouses and divorce. There are times that divorce is unavoidable, sometimes however, it is a way of saying, "that person is no longer an asset to my sense of self-fullfillment" and I need to dump them (often for a younger version).

Mid-life crisis? Maybe he is just a narcissistic jerk.

I do have a bone to pick with a culture that treats people as if they were luxeries to be attained or disposed of, this does not mean that I cannot understand that, at certain times of life, one cannot be thankful that they do not yet have the responsibility for children, or, for that matter, aging parents or that such emotions are not the right attitude to have.

[Armageddon]

I have been married for 13 years and have been with my wife since high school. I am 40 and she is 39. We have two daughter age 12 and 10. I wouldn't have it any other way. We are typical soccer parents. My youngest daugher plays select, so we are all over the place with her. My wife doesn't believe in my 911 and PO conspiracies, but she still loves me, lol.

[Specop_007]

Married with 3 kids. Its given me my humanity. Before that, trust me when I say, I would have been your worst nightmare in a crisis situation.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'u')nburdened by a wife and children,

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'u')nburdened by a wife and children,

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '
')
I do have a bone to pick with a culture that treats people as if they were luxeries to be attained or disposed of, this does not mean that I cannot understand that, at certain times of life, one cannot be thankful that they do not yet have the responsibility for children, or, for that matter, aging parents or that such emotions are not the right attitude to have.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'u')nburdened by a wife and children,

[FreakOil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'M')y critique of the use of "burden" is philosophical. We have gone too far, in my opinion, in thinking of people as either assets or burdens. We have made people commodities to be bought or sold, or to be sent off to old folks homes when they get in our way or need care or upset our apple cart. The same can be true of spouses and divorce. There are times that divorce is unavoidable, sometimes however, it is a way of saying, "that person is no longer an asset to my sense of self-fullfillment" and I need to dump them (often for a younger version).

Mid-life crisis? Maybe he is just a narcissistic jerk.

I do have a bone to pick with a culture that treats people as if they were luxeries to be attained or disposed of, this does not mean that I cannot understand that, at certain times of life, one cannot be thankful that they do not yet have the responsibility for children, or, for that matter, aging parents or that such emotions are not the right attitude to have.

[wisconsin_cur]

Lets take the orphan example.

When she becomes part of a community... lets say she gets involved in a local food coop or a church, the details are unimportant.

When is she going to feel most included in the group? Will it not be when she is invited into the home for a meal? When she feels part of "the family."

There are reasons other than the emotional that makes the loss of parents at a young age a tragedy (or for that matter children born to parents who abuse or otherwise do not provide the community of family) which is the absence of that proto-community which is (or at least should be) family.

It is not that the orphan is forever without community but it is the family that is the building blocks of community. We learn to look beyond ourselves in family (however that is defined) with people that we know and love. We then move into community where we learn to do give even to people we do not love, or even people that we definitely dislike.

I have a neighbor that shot, and killed my dog last year. I don't particularly like this fellow though his wife and kids seem ok. I am in community with that person, even though I do not like him. I learned that skill with aunts and uncles that I did not like but they were family and you love them and support them even though they are not... loveable.

This support flows both ways, which is good since I have needed support and while I think I am loveable I understand that much of what I have done with my life might appear... irrational. This does not mean you can not tell people that they are a horse's ass when need be (easier in family than in community) but when help is needed you still show up to help the horse's ass. You still take them Christmas cookies. You still invite them in for coffee if life's busisness brings them your way.

I don't know if this has been clear. Its early.

[FreakOil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'L')ets take the orphan example.

When she becomes part of a community... lets say she gets involved in a local food coop or a church, the details are unimportant.

When is she going to feel most included in the group? Will it not be when she is invited into the home for a meal? When she feels part of "the family."

There are reasons other than the emotional that makes the loss of parents at a young age a tragedy (or for that matter children born to parents who abuse or otherwise do not provide the community of family) which is the absence of that proto-community which is (or at least should be) family.

It is not that the orphan is forever without community but it is the family that is the building blocks of community. We learn to look beyond ourselves in family (however that is defined) with people that we know and love. We then move into community where we learn to do give even to people we do not love, or even people that we definitely dislike.

I have a neighbor that shot, and killed my dog last year. I don't particularly like this fellow though his wife and kids seem ok. I am in community with that person, even though I do not like him. I learned that skill with aunts and uncles that I did not like but they were family and you love them and support them even though they are not... loveable.

This support flows both ways, which is good since I have needed support and while I think I am loveable I understand that much of what I have done with my life might appear... irrational. This does not mean you can not tell people that they are a horse's ass when need be (easier in family than in community) but when help is needed you still show up to help the horse's ass. You still take them Christmas cookies. You still invite them in for coffee if life's busisness brings them your way.

I don't know if this has been clear. Its early.