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Re: Another Oil price Record

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Re: Another Record

Unread postby Leanan » Thu 03 Jan 2008, 20:12:44

Cool graphs. Did you make them?
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby Armageddon » Thu 03 Jan 2008, 20:25:43

Thanks Zahl, nice set of graphs.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby Zahl » Thu 03 Jan 2008, 21:07:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'C')ool graphs. Did you make them?


Yes. Straight from the EIA data.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby whereagles » Thu 03 Jan 2008, 21:46:36

Is the government sleeping or something? If I were in charge and see those gasoline stocks losing 45% in 8 years, I'd be very worried.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby DantesPeak » Thu 03 Jan 2008, 21:59:39

The problem with constantly declining inventories is that eventually we play a game of whack-a mole, which at least gives us a clue that shortages are about to occur somewhere.

For example, gasoline production has picked up over the last month (despite the onset of winter), so crude oil must be drawn down faster. So if we avoid hitting MOLs for gasoline, we may be closer to hitting the MOL for crude as its used up.

During 2007, gasoline was most frequently closest to MOLs nationwide, although diesel was also in short supply in some locations. Gasoline supplies were rushed around the US and Canada, in whack-a-mole style, to prevent any major city from having significant gasoline shortages. In 2008, if import trends do not change, it's possible that the MOL for crude will be hit before the MOL for gasoline. Still it is not yet clear if even gasoline imports in 2008 will be maintained at 2007 levels.

It's going to be an interesting year, maybe the last year where fuel supplies are fairly reliable across most of the country. I see much larger problems with supply looming in 2009, as the struggle to stay above MOLs will start to fail.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby Bas » Fri 04 Jan 2008, 01:05:59

whack-a-MOL....how applicable

Thanks for the graphs, zahl and welcome :)
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby Leanan » Fri 04 Jan 2008, 12:36:55

Westexas thinks that drop in gasoline is due to the ramping up of ethanol. He suggests total gasoline stocks would be a better measure.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby Zahl » Fri 04 Jan 2008, 18:41:13

A good measure of what? If we want to get a good strategic picture of potential gasoline shortages, then the Finished Motor Gasoline statistic is the one to watch. People don't drive with blending components and oxygenates. If the FMG statistic drops below critical levels, all cups and cans may be full of blending components and oxygenates, but a shortage of gasoline will occur. Here is the Days of Supply version of the previous Finished Motor Gasoline graph. It isn't surprising that there are gasoline shortages when the days of supply hovers just above 11 days. Before the ethanol craze started to take over, it was pretty stable at 17 to 19 days.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby Leanan » Fri 04 Jan 2008, 18:51:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eople don't drive with blending components and oxygenates.


But they do drive with ethanol. And the law changed, phasing in an increase in the percentage of ethanol mixed into gasoline.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby Zahl » Fri 04 Jan 2008, 20:21:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eople don't drive with blending components and oxygenates.


But they do drive with ethanol. And the law changed, phasing in an increase in the percentage of ethanol mixed into gasoline.


I'm not sure what you are trying to say. You seem to think that the Finished Motor Gasoline figure does not include ethanol stuff such as E10 or E85, but it does. By definition, Total Motor Gasoline = Finished Motor Gasoline + Blending Components. Again the point is that people don't drive with blending components and because of that we should watch the FMG figure to get a good strategic picture of potential gasoline shortages.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby sjn » Fri 04 Jan 2008, 20:49:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zahl', 'A') good measure of what? If we want to get a good strategic picture of potential gasoline shortages, then the Finished Motor Gasoline statistic is the one to watch. People don't drive with blending components and oxygenates. If the FMG statistic drops below critical levels, all cups and cans may be full of blending components and oxygenates, but a shortage of gasoline will occur. Here is the Days of Supply version of the previous Finished Motor Gasoline graph. It isn't surprising that there are gasoline shortages when the days of supply hovers just above 11 days. Before the ethanol craze started to take over, it was pretty stable at 17 to 19 days.

I fully concur, this is why I was highlighting the change in blending components relative to gasoline during the summer. Do you have a days of supply for CO ex SPR too? The MOL for crude must have shifted upward since the 2003 low.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby SchroedingersCat » Fri 04 Jan 2008, 21:44:50

The Congressional Research Service prepared a report to Congress in late 2005 that listed the MOL for gasoline at 170 and for oil at 270. The report did not source those figures.

I think days of supply above MOL is the best way to look at the inventories when they're this tight. If crude inventories are at 290 mbbls now, that is only two days worth of imports away from MOL.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby Zahl » Fri 04 Jan 2008, 23:40:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zahl', 'A') good measure of what? If we want to get a good strategic picture of potential gasoline shortages, then the Finished Motor Gasoline statistic is the one to watch. People don't drive with blending components and oxygenates. If the FMG statistic drops below critical levels, all cups and cans may be full of blending components and oxygenates, but a shortage of gasoline will occur. Here is the Days of Supply version of the previous Finished Motor Gasoline graph. It isn't surprising that there are gasoline shortages when the days of supply hovers just above 11 days. Before the ethanol craze started to take over, it was pretty stable at 17 to 19 days.

I fully concur, this is why I was highlighting the change in blending components relative to gasoline during the summer. Do you have a days of supply for CO ex SPR too? The MOL for crude must have shifted upward since the 2003 low.


Here it is. This is based on the weekly data as I didn't bother to reconstruct it from the revised monthly figures.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby sjn » Sat 05 Jan 2008, 11:00:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SchroedingersCat', 'T')he Congressional Research Service prepared a report to Congress in late 2005 that listed the MOL for gasoline at 170 and for oil at 270. The report did not source those figures.

I think days of supply above MOL is the best way to look at the inventories when they're this tight. If crude inventories are at 290 mbbls now, that is only two days worth of imports away from MOL.

That would tally with Zahl's days of supply graph linked above. During the period crude inventory has never fallen below 17 days of supply, while we have now broken through 19 as of Nov '07, the latest data point on the chart. If the current trend doesn't change soon it won't be long before we find out.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby Zahl » Sat 05 Jan 2008, 11:55:30

The last data point in that graph is actually Dec-28, 2007 at 19.0 days. In recent years stocks (and days of supply) have fallen until mid-January so we probably see two or three drops before going up again. As for MOLs, it mostly hinges on the skill of those who run the system, not any hard figure. Crappy logistics and there will be shortages even with reasonable stock levels.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby sjn » Sat 05 Jan 2008, 12:15:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zahl', 'T')he last data point in that graph is actually Dec-28, 2007 at 19.0 days.
Fair enough, it wasn't clear from the axis labels.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')In recent years stocks (and days of supply) have fallen until mid-January so we probably see two or three drops before going up again.

There is no strong reason to believe we'll have the same situation as the last couple of years. Net exports have been falling steadly over that time period. The previous low in days of supply coincided with the hurricanes in 2005, this time it's simply inadequate imports to maintain stocks in the face of demand. The current run-up in prices has no parallel in the last couple of years for this time of year and so I don't believe we are simply seeing a repeating pattern.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')As for MOLs, it mostly hinges on the skill of those who run the system, not any hard figure. Crappy logistics and there will be shortages even with reasonable stock levels.
There are hard limits, the figures aren't known with any accuracy but they do exist. In practical terms it's absolutely true that problems will arise before the hard limit is reached.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby Zahl » Sat 05 Jan 2008, 13:42:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zahl', 'I')n recent years stocks (and days of supply) have fallen until mid-January so we probably see two or three drops before going up again.


There is no strong reason to believe we'll have the same situation as the last couple of years. Net exports have been falling steadly over that time period.


Net exports? You surely mean net imports. Not according to this EIA data. U.S. crude oil net imports are actually above average at about 10 Mb per day. Anyway, we'll see what happens.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he previous low in days of supply coincided with the hurricanes in 2005


Crude oil (excluding SPR) Days of Supply stood at 20.2 days just after Katrina, which is exactly the mean level of 2000-2007. It actually went up to 24.7 days in October when some of the SPR oil was released. This was the highest point of the decade. The lowest data point in that graph was Sep-17, 2004 at 17.2 days.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')his time it's simply inadequate imports to maintain stocks in the face of demand.


Quantitative analysis does not support that view.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s for MOLs, it mostly hinges on the skill of those who run the system, not any hard figure. Crappy logistics and there will be shortages even with reasonable stock levels.There are hard limits, the figures aren't known with any accuracy but they do exist.

Well, I don't think that is true.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby sjn » Sat 05 Jan 2008, 14:49:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zahl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zahl', 'I')n recent years stocks (and days of supply) have fallen until mid-January so we probably see two or three drops before going up again.


There is no strong reason to believe we'll have the same situation as the last couple of years. Net exports have been falling steadly over that time period.


Net exports? You surely mean net imports. Not according to this EIA data.
No I mean exports. As in the globally traded oil as opposed to that used internally by oil producers. The quantity of available global oil exports has been reducing as oil exporters use more oil internally and overall production has plateaued. $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U').S. crude oil net imports are actually above average at about 10 Mb per day. Anyway, we'll see what happens.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he previous low in days of supply coincided with the hurricanes in 2005


Crude oil (excluding SPR) Days of Supply stood at 20.2 days just after Katrina, which is exactly the mean level of 2000-2007. It actually went up to 24.7 days in October when some of the SPR oil was released. This was the highest point of the decade. The lowest data point in that graph was Sep-17, 2004 at 17.2 days.
Obviously I'm still having trouble reading the x axis. My memory was that leading up to the hurricanes oil prices were already high and stocks were not building but the loss of the gulf coast refinerys caused a relative glut of crude and shortage of products which was made up for by emergency supplies from Europe. Anyway, my point was that we haven't seen less than 17 days of inventory so once we do we'll be in uncharted territory.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')his time it's simply inadequate imports to maintain stocks in the face of demand.

Quantitative analysis does not support that view.
How so? Stocks have been being drawn down for a long time now, yet oil prices are higher, so there's definitely demand for oil from somewhere. The US clearly must pay more on the international market if it wants a greater share of global exports.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s for MOLs, it mostly hinges on the skill of those who run the system, not any hard figure. Crappy logistics and there will be shortages even with reasonable stock levels.There are hard limits, the figures aren't known with any accuracy but they do exist.

Well, I don't think that is true.
Pipelines need to be full to move oil. Refineries need oil on-hand to operate. There is a certain amount of buffering in the system that represents a hard physical limit for the system to function.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby Zahl » Sun 06 Jan 2008, 08:36:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zahl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zahl', 'I')n recent years stocks (and days of supply) have fallen until mid-January so we probably see two or three drops before going up again.


There is no strong reason to believe we'll have the same situation as the last couple of years. Net exports have been falling steadly over that time period.


Net exports? You surely mean net imports. Not according to this EIA data.
No I mean exports. As in the globally traded oil as opposed to that used internally by oil producers. The quantity of available global oil exports has been reducing as oil exporters use more oil internally and overall production has plateaued.


OPEC (based on their current membership) net exports:

Image

Much has been written about the recent decline in OPEC net exports, but people forget that there was a much bigger drop in 2001-2002 (3 Mb) yet nothing happened. Anyway, this graph does not support your argument that net exports have been falling steadily over the recent years. Here's FSU net exports from the latest IEA report:

Image

FSU net exports are going way up.

Sure, American imports from Mexico have been declining quite badly as of late, but increases from Canada, Brazil and Algeria have made them up.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')his time it's simply inadequate imports to maintain stocks in the face of demand.

Quantitative analysis does not support that view.
How so?

See above.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')tocks have been being drawn down for a long time now

The stock draw has lasted for about six months now, about the same it was during the big 65 Mb draw in 2002. This is not unprecedented.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s for MOLs, it mostly hinges on the skill of those who run the system, not any hard figure. Crappy logistics and there will be shortages even with reasonable stock levels.There are hard limits, the figures aren't known with any accuracy but they do exist.

Well, I don't think that is true.

Pipelines need to be full to move oil. Refineries need oil on-hand to operate. There is a certain amount of buffering in the system that represents a hard physical limit for the system to function.

Sure, but the number of barrels from those two is much below the level of these so called MOLs we were talking about.
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Re: Another Record

Unread postby sjn » Sun 06 Jan 2008, 10:30:45

The author of this blog is tracking global net oil exports.

The difference in magnitude and direction of oil prices since net exports were down in 2000 is a clear sign to me that this time the change is export led as opposed to import led.
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