Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Who are "the elites"?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby Narz » Sun 30 Dec 2007, 20:52:11

Is a mere matter of money? Is A-Rod an elite? How about Tony Robbins?

If it's more than just about money, how does one get in?

Have you met any "elites"? If so, what were they like?

If you haven't met any (or met anyone who's met any) on what evidence to you base their "agenda"?

Also. Is there a "global elite" or are the elites within each country (even regions of countries) usually in opposition to each other?

Just a curious inquiry I have been wondering about. :)
Last edited by Narz on Sun 30 Dec 2007, 20:56:24, edited 1 time in total.
“Seek simplicity but distrust it”
User avatar
Narz
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2360
Joined: Sat 25 Nov 2006, 04:00:00
Location: the belly of the beast (New Jersey)

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Sun 30 Dec 2007, 20:54:18

jews.
I_Like_Plants
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3839
Joined: Sun 12 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: 1st territorial capitol of AZ

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby Eli » Sun 30 Dec 2007, 21:13:44

I think the defining thing about elites in the US is that they have family money that will never go away and they have had it for a long time.

A-Rod and Tony Robbins are not elite they are merely very wealthy.

I knew a guy that ran around with a couple of the J&J heirs, they would just fly all over in a leer jet and party excessively. To be truly elite you have to have a zoo that was built in your name or -+have college buildings named after you at ivy league schools.
User avatar
Eli
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3709
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: In a van down by the river

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby Gandalf_the_White » Sun 30 Dec 2007, 21:16:18

I can give you a few family names whose history and present holdings and activities are pretty close to global elitism: Warburg, Rothschild, Rockefeller, Morgan, Vanderbilt. You can add to the list the current titans of any industry, and political rulers from most powerful nations pretty easily. Much of the aristocracy of old Europe did not lose their wealth and so therefore they are still a part of the mix in a world where money talks.

You seem to be sarcastically hinting at something like "If no one has ever seen an 'elite' how do we know their there?

I'll pass on answering in that tone. I will say that someone is running the world, not in totality, but in significantly large blocks so as to live in places that you and I will never have access. If you doubt that is true try gaining access to the most elite function in your own local area. You are either in the club or you are not. You might get through the doors, but having a meaningful conversation that is followed up my an invitation to future events is very unlikely.

Here are the names of a couple gatherings that would seem to serve as functions of the elite: Bohemian Grove, Pacific Union Club, Bilderburg Fellowship, Club of Rome,...

The difficulty for most average men that look too deeply into these things is that they find out that there truly isa world of power elite out there that they are purposefuly excluded from and that hurts the pride quite a bit. What does a fellow have to do to have a private jet and taste Port and almonds with Prince Renier in the morning and gin fizzes with Dick Cheney in an ancient stand of Redwoods in the evening? It can't be that they are smarter than all of the rest of us, that can't be the answer (sarcasm intended.) Someone must have handed these people their fortunes right?

On the other spin though, the elites of any level in society have a disproportionate influence on the politics of their worlds due to their wealth and connections. For the global elite probably their greatest skill and advantage is being part of those rarified circles where former Presidents come pitching their next philanthropic idea. Homo Democritus believes the illusion that he is in charge of his own destiny. He praises 'God' (sometimes) for a home, a kid, and 2.5 trucks, and gladly sends his son off to war. Homo Elitist pays Homo Democritus to do this and the trucks and houses and kids are just part of making sure that the factories keep running. Humans are a commodity in true global capitalism. In true global humanism they are at least a species that deserves a minimal quality of life. There is much about the two notions that lead to the same place. In true Christianity, every human life is precious. This is among the hallmarks of a true Christian, they do not harm their neighbors and for this God protects them until the day comes when all things have been fulfilled.
I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
User avatar
Gandalf_the_White
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed 21 Nov 2007, 04:00:00

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby Narz » Sun 30 Dec 2007, 21:28:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gandalf_the_White', 'Y')ou seem to be sarcastically hinting at something like "If no one has ever seen an 'elite' how do we know their there?

My questioning is sincere & earnest.
“Seek simplicity but distrust it”
User avatar
Narz
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2360
Joined: Sat 25 Nov 2006, 04:00:00
Location: the belly of the beast (New Jersey)

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby dinopello » Sun 30 Dec 2007, 21:35:14

Did you see this article ?

The End of Sprawl?

the reason this is on topic is in the reader comment section. (Hamilton2)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')ver since the dawn of the automobile era, elitists have been predicting the end of sprawl.


So, there you have it.
User avatar
dinopello
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6088
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: The Urban Village

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Sun 30 Dec 2007, 21:45:02

The short answer is, Jews.

However you guys make some very good points - the US was not founded by Jews, nor was it nearly as friendly to them as it is now. Ben Franklin wanted them kept out of the US, and General Grant wanted them excluded from the South after the Civil War. The old WASP families were indeed the original elite. And they set up the idea of Americans having control over their own destiny. When they weren't setting up hospitals that treated the poor for free and stuff, they did quite a bit of good.

But they've been and they are being, slowly replaced by you guessed it, Jews.

So now we have a mix, some of the old WASP families are still in place and they are allowed to go on as long as they are not inimical to the Jews. And Jews are largely, on their way to totally, running foreign policy, banking, media, and so on.

So right now there's still a mix, and someone naive can say "No, it's not all Jews, therefore Jews are not taking over..." but if you look at the trend over time, it's pretty obvious they are.

And the end result is a broken-up society, which as Jews writing about these things will tell you, is considered safest for Jews. After all, an American too worried about blacks or mexicans breaking in like they tried to the night before, is an American not worrying about the Jews running his credit card up to 34%. Or the Jews sending his kids off to war. And now the US is hated more than at any time in history, and in Iraq and Afghanistan, American soldiers are referred to at "Jews" by the populace.

So, the longer answer is, Jews, and their WASP porch monkeys.
I_Like_Plants
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3839
Joined: Sun 12 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: 1st territorial capitol of AZ

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby Angry_Chimp » Sun 30 Dec 2007, 22:31:03

The merchant bankers of London had already at hand in 1810-1850 the Stock Exchange, the Bank of England, and the London money market when the needs of advancing industrialism called all of these into the industrial world which they had hitherto ignored. In time they brought into their financial network the provincial banking centers, organized as commercial banks and savings banks, as well as insurance companies, to form all of these into a single financial system on an international scale which manipulated the quantity and flow of money so that they were able to influence, if not control, governments on one side and industries on the other. The men who did this, looking backward toward the period of dynastic monarchy in which they had their own roots, aspired to establish dynasties of international bankers and were at least as successful at this as were many of the dynastic political rulers. The greatest of these dynasties, of course, were the descendants of Meyer Amschel Rothschild (1743-1812) of Frankfort, whose male descendants, for at least two generations, generally married first cousins or even nieces. Rothschild's five sons, established at branches in Vienna, London, Naples, and Paris, as well as Frankfort, cooperated together in ways which other international banking dynasties copied but rarely excelled.

In concentrating, as we must, on the financial or economic activities of international bankers, we must not totally ignore their other attributes. They were, especially in later generations, cosmopolitan rather than nationalistic; they were a constant, if weakening, influence for peace, a pattern established in 1830 and 1840 when the Rothschilds threw their

{p. 52} whole tremendous influence successfully against European wars. They were usually highly civilized, cultured gentlemen, patrons of education and of the arts, so that today colleges, professorships, opera companies, svmphonies, libraries, and museum collections still reflect their munificence. For these purposes they set a pattern of endowed foundations which still surround us today.

The names of some of these banking families are familiar to all of us and should he more so. They include Baring, Lazard, Erlanger, Warburg, Schroder, Seligman, the Speyers, Mlirabaud, Mallet, Fould, and above all Rothschild and Morgan. Even after these banking families became fully involved in domestic industry by the emergence of financial capitalism, they remained different from ordinary bankers in distinctive ways: (1) they were cosmopolitan and international; (2) they were close to governments and were particularly concerned with questions of government debts, including foreign government debts, even in areas which seemed, at first glance, poor risks, like Egypt, Persia, Ottoman Turkey, Imperial China, and Latin America; (3) their interests were almost exclusively in bonds and very rarely in goods, since they admired "liquidity" and regarded commitments in commodities or even real estate as the first step toward bankruptcy; (4) they were, accordingly, fanatical devotees of deflation (which they called "sound" money from its close associations with high interest rates and a high value of money) and of the gold standard, which, in their eyes, symbolized and ensured these values; and (5) they were almost equally devoted to secrecy and the secret use of financial influence in political life. These bankers came to be called "international bankers" and, more particularly, were known as "merchant bankers" in England, "private bankers" in France, and "investment bankers" in the United States. In all countries they carried on various kinds of banking and exchange activities, but everywhere they were sharply distinguishable from other, more obvious, kinds of banks, such as savings hanks or commercial banks.

One of their less obvious characteristics was that they remained as private unincorporated firms, usually partnerships, until relatively recently, offering no shares, no reports, and usually no advertising to thc public. This risky status, which deprived them of limited liability, was retained, in most cases, until modern inheritance taxes made it essential to surround such family wealth with the immortality of corporate status for tax-avoidance purposes. This persistence as private firms continued because it ensured the maximum of anonymity and secrecy to persons of tremendous public power who dreaded public knowledge of their activities as an evil almost as great as inflation. As a consequence, ordinary people had no way of knowing the wealth or areas of operation of such firms, and often were somewhat hazy as to their member

{p. 53} ship. Thus, people of considerable political knowledge might not associate the names Walter Burns, Clinton Dawkins, Edward Grenfell, Willard Straight, Thomas Lamont, Dwight Morrow, Nelson Perkins, Russell Leffingwell, Elihu Root, John W. Davis, John Foster Dulles, and S. Parker Gilbert with the name "Morgan," yet all these and many others were parts of the system of influence which centered on the J. P. Morgan office at 23 Wall Street. This firm, like others of the international banking fraternity, constantly operated through corporations and governments, yet remained itself an obscure private partnership until international financial capitalism was passing from its deathbed to the grave. J. P. Morgan and Company, originally founded in London as George Peabody and Company in 1838, was not incorporated until March 21, 1940, and went out of existence as a separate entity on April 24, 1959, when it merged with its most important commercial bank subsidiary, the Guaranty Trust Company. The London affiliate, Morgan Grenfell, was incorporated in 1934, and still exists.

The influence of financial capitalism and of the international bankers who created it was exercised both on business and on governments, but could have done neither if it had not been able to persuade both these to accept two "axioms" of its own ideology. Both of these were based on the assumption that politicians were too weak and too subject to temporary popular pressures to be trusted with control of the money system; accordingly, the sanctity of all values and the soundness of money must be protected in two ways: by basing the value of money on gold and by allowing bankers to control the supply of money. To do this it was necessary to conceal, or even to mislead, both governments and people about the nature of money and its methods of operation.


Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in our Time, Macmillan New York 1966.
User avatar
Angry_Chimp
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue 25 Sep 2007, 03:00:00

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby mmasters » Sun 30 Dec 2007, 22:58:26

These are the 13 ruling families (one or two may be off), some are well known others are little known:

Rothschild, Bruce, Cavendish, De Medici, Hanover, Hapsburg, Krupp, Plantagenet, Rockefeller, Romanov, Sinclair, Warburg, Windsor

Rothschild is the dominant family of the group which represents the gold cap on top of the pyramid. However rumor has it that the Windor and Romanov families are competing for the lead spot.

Most people identified as elite are members of various working groups which support the above families.
User avatar
mmasters
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun 16 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Mid-Atlantic

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby dinopello » Sun 30 Dec 2007, 23:31:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gandalf_the_White', 'W')hat does a fellow have to do to have a private jet and taste Port and almonds with Prince Renier in the morning and gin fizzes with Dick Cheney in an ancient stand of Redwoods in the evening?


Port and chocolate I am having right now. Why in hawkman's name would you want it to be around Prince Renier - what a bore. Gin fizzes with Dick Cheney? I'd rather have a red hot poker in my eye.

You guys know about elites. And here I thought I was one.
User avatar
dinopello
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6088
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: The Urban Village

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby Gandalf_the_White » Mon 31 Dec 2007, 03:02:53

Chartruese on the veranda shall we?

As people I am sure there are actually many fine folks among the elite. I myself am an elitist (so labelled.) This is because I refuse to bring into my privy circle anyone whose character I do not believe to be made of titanium alloy. It is better, I have found, to have only one friend (God is ideal) than a million so called friends whose mind's eye's can barely see beyond the low cut blouses of their highly paid publicity staff.

Now masters, you know that the Romanovs were quite well connected and part of the old Blue Bloods.

Democracy is quite a paradox. It tells us all we are the same, but is to be differentiated from socialism in that socialism actually proscribes public policies in which we are all treated the same. Capitalism cares not who is the same, only who owns the copyright to the motto "We are all the same."

Better, I say, an enlightened and trusted monarch. Still If any government acts with wisdom and in human dignity serves the people's best interest then it can be filled with 'elites' or 'serfs' the outcome is the same. But of course I am playing games with the term 'elite.'

What I think we all mean by 'elite' is someone with enough capital (political, financial, etc.) to be able to influence the world around them significantly, and whose motives tend toward extreme self-interest, intrigue, power-lust, vice etc. I do not mean to fault any person of character, who happens to be rich, and while enjoying their Port and chocolates (I prefer Napoleon's favorite with chocolate, but I am a prude I guess), also is doing their best to use their position in positive ways and in line with their own enlightened conscience. These are always agreeable folks, although the average person is no more likely to have a chat with them than with the really nasty 'elites' who make a convenient scapegoat for rising oil prices and the destructive lifestyles of certain metropolitan underclasses.

BTW, the elite classes in the western world today probably comprise a few million people at least. We are not talking about two dozen men lording themselves over us all from secret chambers. There are several distinct seats of power and each of them is beholden to the other in various ways. A good lesson to learn though is that politics is highly intertwined with these power centers. The american voter in a certain way is part of one of the power centers in the world today. Judging by a per capita comparison Americans are an elite class in the modern world. 2% of the world's population controlling 25% of it's resources by sheer will. That is pretty impressive. The idea of elitist influence is not a hollywood fantasy film.

Ta Ta. I'm off to my hazelnut swizzle sticks and blueberry wine. Total elitist pricetag around $16. Charging it at the local supermarket, priceless.

:-)
I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
User avatar
Gandalf_the_White
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed 21 Nov 2007, 04:00:00

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby Gandalf_the_White » Mon 31 Dec 2007, 03:40:16

Oh yes, and since we have 'elites' on the site I will throw this out and see if they agree with me. Sometimes people want to know how to get 'in.' Well one way to not get in with true elites is to create a sense that you think they don't deserve what they have. What I have just said does not really capture it. Alot of the folks I have seen or known are really quite nice as people and if you criticize them or bring any kind of trouble to them they will not talk to you at all. See slot of the wealthy are very into trying to lead happy peaceful lives and their wealth helps them do that, they are philanthropic and feel they have the right to enjoy their money. If you stomp in like a milkman talking about all sorts of responsibilities they are not fulfilling it's over. The fact is that you have to use quite different approaches to to influence those whose wealth and position ensure that they really do not have to listen to you at all.

Maybe someone else here with access to more esoteric circles can comment but that has been my limited experience with wealthy people. They are people like you and I, but many bristle at the idea that somehow what they have really 'should' belong to someone else. Even if they will not openly say that, they will not simply give anyone money unless it was their idea.

In the grand scheme of things it makes little difference if they do or don't. The funded charities make a difference for many individuals, but in the big picture there is not enough wealth in the world so that every living human could exist above the US poverty level, not by a long shot. Extreme income disparity though is bad for the economy in most nations.
I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
User avatar
Gandalf_the_White
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed 21 Nov 2007, 04:00:00

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 31 Dec 2007, 11:32:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mmasters', 'T')hese are the 13 ruling families (one or two may be off), some are well known others are little known:

Rothschild, Bruce, Cavendish, De Medici, Hanover, Hapsburg, Krupp, Plantagenet, Rockefeller, Romanov, Sinclair, Warburg, Windsor

Rothschild is the dominant family of the group which represents the gold cap on top of the pyramid. However rumor has it that the Windor and Romanov families are competing for the lead spot.

Most people identified as elite are members of various working groups which support the above families.


Planted Agent? :razz:
vision-master
 

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby mmasters » Mon 31 Dec 2007, 11:35:03

User avatar
mmasters
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun 16 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Mid-Atlantic

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 31 Dec 2007, 11:37:44

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. :wink:
vision-master
 

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby frankthetank » Mon 31 Dec 2007, 12:08:15

"Old Money"... I think that is probably a requirement, although you must wonder about guys like Buffet, Gates, Allen, Jobs, and all of these newer guys.

I know, through a family member, some incredibly wealthy people (family fortune was near a billion at one time, not sure now) and they don't seem "elite" to me, they actually sound like they are bored! Its pretty much a game to see what they can buy next. Nice people, and yes, they do have several buildings named after them.

Money must just be 1 requirement, probably a proper education, a well known last name...

Eli-
Johnson and Johnson? Are they from Racine area? I know someone that knows them...i've heard a few stories. That must be living in a whole different world.

The movie "Cruel Intentions" comes to mind when i think about "elites".
lawns should be outlawed.
User avatar
frankthetank
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6202
Joined: Thu 16 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Southwest WI

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby bonehead » Mon 31 Dec 2007, 12:26:00

I've met a couple of "elite" families.One was jewish and the other was not.I was working in the non-jewish family's home one day and the wife told us that she was leaving for Washington that afternoon with her husband to go have dinner with Dick Cheney.The jewish family was very nice to us and surprisingly,seemed to lean towards the democratic party.There were pictures of them with Bill Clinton in their study.They had a real muscle car in their garage too,a two seat Mercedes sports car with a V-12 engine in it.
Gimme some demand destruction.
User avatar
bonehead
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon 15 Oct 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Northeast U.S.Heating oil heaven.

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 31 Dec 2007, 12:56:50

I know of an elite family. The Stewards. I think they had major interest with Mutual of Omaha (like President) and owned all kinds of other banks. The family has summer places on the lake that my brother lives.


What I know:

    The old Man - James Steward must be in his late 80's.
    They funded the local airport for their leer jet.
    About 10 years ago they built a bunch of "places" for the kids.
    One "summer place" building ran about $14,000,000.
    They don't seem to work as someone is always around during the summer Months
    Rumor has it they are worth billions.
    They don't pay any property taxes as the place is set up with some kind of "non-profit" status? Something to do with a school. Yeah, right.
    The main place has a 20 car garage
    They have a bunch of vacation places, God knows where.
    I met a few of the kids once - I thought one was a rastafarian, they had a cool $70,000 ski boat in town and i just started talking to them. Afterwards my brother said, "those are the Stewards". Yikes......


I've tried gloogling them and have never found anything. Figures, huh.
vision-master
 

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 31 Dec 2007, 13:17:11

Well, this bunch seems pretty "elite" to me:

The Forbes 400

The list

I mean, money talks and bullshit walks, right? They may not have old-line European pedigrees, and they may be reluctant to marry their nieces, but when these folks talk, everybody listens hard.
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
User avatar
Zardoz
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6323
Joined: Fri 02 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia

Re: Who are "the elites"?

Unread postby Bas » Mon 31 Dec 2007, 13:25:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'W')ell, this bunch seems pretty "elite" to me:

The Forbes 400

The list

I mean, money talks and bullshit walks, right? They may not have old-line European pedigrees, and they may be reluctant to marry their nieces, but when these folks talk, everybody listens hard.


that list, and this one too(they may partly overlap):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bilderberg_attendees

I'm not big on conspiracy but certainly you can be considered elite when you're invited to the bilderberg conference.
Bas
 
Top

Next

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron