[Denny]

I am not sure why other candidates haven't delved so much into this issue so far, but Mr. Huckabee is committing to a fortified border against illegal immigrants and maybe the most severe actions against illegal immigrants ever promoted by a serious politician, basically deportation but with a registry to allow those voluntary leaving to be re-admitted when their turn comes up.

Seems severe, but as I said, I am surprised that other candidates have not come up with similar, as the illegal immigration seems to out of control, just watch the Lou Dobbs news on CNN.

See Huckabee for President:

"The Secure America Plan
A 9-Point Strategy for Immigration Enforcement and Border Security

Overview: Implement a broad-based strategy that commits the resources of the federal government to the enforcement of our immigration laws and results in the attrition of the illegal immigrant population.

1. Build the Fence
* Ensure that an interlocking surveillance camera system is installed along the border by July 1, 2010.
* Ensure that the border fence construction is completed by July 1, 2010.

2. Increase Border Patrol
* Increase the number of border patrol agents.
* Fully support all law enforcement personnel tasked with enforcing immigration law.

3. Prevent Amnesty
* Policies that promote or tolerate amnesty will be rejected.
* Propose to provide all illegal immigrants a 120-day window to register with the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services and leave the country. Those who register and return to their home country will face no penalty if they later apply to immigrate or visit; those who do not return home will be, when caught, barred from future reentry for a period of 10 years.

4. Enforce the Law on Employers
* Employment is the chief draw for most illegal immigrants and denying them jobs is the centerpiece of an attrition strategy.
* Impose steep fines and penalties on employers that violate the law.
* Institute a universal, mandatory citizenship verification system as part of the normal hiring process.
* Prevent the IRS and the Social Security Administration from accepting fraudulent Social Security numbers or numbers that don't match the employees' names.*

Something else on the Huckabee site, is his strong Christianity, but this seems somewhat at odds with the secure borders policy, which comes across as ruthless:

"Faith and Politics

* The First Amendment requires that expressions of faith be neither prohibited nor preferred.

* My faith is my life - it defines me. I don't separate my faith from my personal and professional lives.

* Real faith makes us more humble and mindful, not of the faults of others, but of our own. It makes us less judgmental, as we see others with the same frailties we have.

* Faith gives us strength in the face of injustice and motivates us to do our best for "the least of us."

* Our nation was birthed in a spirit of faith - not a prescriptive faith telling us how or whether to believe, but acknowledging a providence that pervades our world.

The First Amendment requires that expressions of faith be neither prohibited nor preferred. We should not banish religion from the public square, but should guarantee access to all voices and views. We should share and debate our faith, but never seek to impose it. When discussing faith and politics, we should honor the "candid" in candidate - I have much more respect for an honest atheist than a disingenuous believer.

My faith is my life - it defines me. My faith doesn't influence my decisions, it drives them. For example, when it comes to the environment, I believe in being a good steward of the earth. I don't separate my faith from my personal and professional lives.

Real faith makes us humble and mindful, not of the faults of others, but of our own. It makes us less judgmental, as we see others with the same frailties we have. Faith gives us strength in the face of injustice and motivates us to do our best for "the least of us."

Our nation was birthed in a spirit of faith - not a prescriptive one telling us whether to believe, but one acknowledging that a providence pervades our world.

[mos6507]

If Huckabee were an atheist I'd donate to his campaign.

[Tanada]

He supported Amnesty in the past, this is just shifting with the wind to try and get the nomination. Hopefully people are smarter than that, but only time and DIEBOLD will tell.

[I_Like_Plants]

If he means it or at least if he sounds enough as if he means it, this will win him the election.

The people on a state and neighborhood level, even on a house-to-house level as hero Joe Horn has demonstrated, are going to enact this sort of plan on their own and the Federal Government is going to be pushed out of the way to enact it if need be.

Huck may be following the one path that won't make the Fedgov the enemy in the people's eyes just as much as the illegals.

[Denny]

I am a bit surprised that Americans are still in the mood for a "faith based" presidency. It seems to me that the present one hasn't been so good, even for people of faith.

[I_Like_Plants]

"acknowledging a providence that pervades our world" was good enough for Spinoza and Einstein, it's good enough for me.

While basically atheist myself, I know that one of the ways the US is going to remain a viable country is through a sort of white, two-fisted Christianity, and while I'd prefer to see Identity Christianity (no matter how tenuously it may be based on the actual historical Jesus) be our state religion, that's probably going too far. It will have to be something that's essentially Identity Christianity without that name, and without ever being conscious that that's what it is. Call it Baptism or Protestantism or whatever, in name.

If you don't think there are a lot of people who subscribe to that way of thinking, remember how big that movie about the Jews torturing Jesus was. Heck people were bringing their under-14 kids to it.

In short, no, Huck's being religious does not bother me a bit.

[kadoomsoon]

Hey, that isn't hard.

I promise, no matter who gets elected, that you will have a fortress american. A fortress cell phone, a fortess bank account, and a fortress mail system, a fortress web cam system and a fortress personal ID tracking system.

This is nothing new.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kadoomsoon', 'H')ey, that isn't hard.

I promise, no matter who gets elected, that you will have a fortress american. A fortress cell phone, a fortess bank account, and a fortress mail system, a fortress web cam system and a fortress personal ID tracking system.

This is nothing new.

[gg3]

.
Yeah, they said the same thing in East Germany when they put up the wall over there. It was supposed to be for keeping out the West Germans who would otherwise storm the gates trying to get into Socialist Utopia. Right. I'll bet the Berliners even believed it for a while.

Be careful what you wish for, good Germans, because you just might get it.

--

Re. illegal immigration: The solution to that one is to simply enforce the existing wages & hours laws. That will dry up demand, and through the magic of the marketplace, no demand -> no supply. Solved. Without neo-Berlin Walls.

--

Re. faith-based: What part of "no religious test for office" don't y'all understand? It's in the Constitution, go look it up. All this talk about Christian Nationalism is downright un-American. And Identity Christian is a code-word for white supremacist.

I'll take my Christianity direct from Jesus, starting with his two commandments about loving God and loving thy neighbor as thyself.

--

You want to live in a theocracy, try Saudi and see how you like it.

We used to say "love it or leave it" and "if you like communism so much, go live in Russia (the USSR)." So I hereby invite all the theocrats and their fellow-travelers (remember that term?) to move to Saudi and Iran if you don't like it here.

--

Huck's pious talk about humility is a crock of baloney. He has a reputation for spite. Yeah, that's what we need, a Leader with a spiteful streak. Real smart.

And when he says that stubbornness is a good characteristic in a leader, well we can see where that's gotten us for the past seven years, including about 5,000 dead American soldiers & Marines, for the sake of exactly what? Protecting a bunch of barbarians from each other? To the tune of a half trillion dollars, for what? Oil? We could have built ten nuclear reactors in every state in the republic for that price.

--

I'll take Ron Paul (best on fiscal responsibility & military prudence), Al Gore (best on climate change), or hold my nose and vote for Hillary (at least she'd make a competent manager) any day, over a guy who raised his hand Yes when asked "who in this debate does not believe in evolution?"

And with that kind of attitude toward science, guess who's flag is going to be flying over the moon in fifteen years?

Yep. Red China.

It's not for nothing they call him Hucksterbee.

And the people who vote for him should be called Suckerbees.

[I_Like_Plants]

I like Ron Paul best too, but Huckabee sounds better than the other bags o shit the Repubs are planning to run.

And I'll say again, Fortress America is being enacted in spite of the Feds, in my state many of those laws are being put into practice, and on our border and on the Texas border, the invasion is being fought off more stridently all the time.

As the economy continues to fall, for illegals it will be self-deport or get shot by an American who will be happy to take your job.

[Nicholai]

It comes down to the short sightedness of multiculturalism pushed forward by big business. Big business wants ignorant foreigners to come to the West and work for minimum wage and not make a noise to help keep wages low and union activity at a minimum.

Unfortunately, when the economy isn't sunshine and daisies, the majority population looks at these immigrants with disdain and malice and WILL INEVITABLY resort to defensive (and possibly offensive) action against them. Depending on what magnitude the economy shrinks of course.

In this case, jobs are becoming harder to find and the illegals coming into the US aren't helping the problem. I wonder what will happen to places like Vancouver and Toronto, or even Edmonton, WHEN (not IF) they experience an economic recession. Remember what happened to Afro Americans during the Great Depression?

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nicholai', 'I')t comes down to the short sightedness of multiculturalism pushed forward by big business. Big business wants ignorant foreigners to come to the West and work for minimum wage and not make a noise to help keep wages low and union activity at a minimum.

[Schneider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nicholai', 'R')emember what happened to Afro Americans during the Great Depression?

[Jenab6]

Illegal immigrants should be executed, not deported. It would be best if they were shot down as they crossed the border. But, if not, then they should be shot as they are found. And anyone employing them should be shot. And anyone knowingly aiding & abetting them, giving them aid and comfort, should be shot. Illegal immigrants are invaders, enemies, even if they do not possess a gun immediately. Assisting them to stay or to evade the laws, or conducting trade with them, is treason. The death penalty is the appropriate punishment for traitors.

[I_Like_Plants]

Jenab6 that is how a huge amount of Americans feel, and while I think you guys are right, Huck's just telling people what they want to hear, I think these measures are going to be enacted by We The People and our guns.

Now, as for what happened to blacks during the Great Depression, I think they were kept out of white affairs, whites' lives, and out of whites' jobs more than in the 1920s, although note that the big increase in the Klan was in the 20s.

Since funding was more scarce for what Political Correctness programs they had then, small towns tended to be run more locally, and that meant run by the Klan or by White Citizens' Councils etc.

Essentially it was not a good time to be an outsider.

Blacks have spent the last 30 years emphasizing how they're not Americans, they're African and all that, so yeah when push comes to shove they can expect to get shoved back, hard.

[gg3]

Speaking of Good Germans! First it's time to rebuild the Berlin Wall, complete with snipers. Next come the racial pogroms.

What's next guys, concentration camps? With gas chambers?

Plants, a primary isn't a horse race. The goal isn't to guess the winner, it's to choose a candidate. The time for pragmatism is in the general election, where voting for third parties guarantees a win for whatever you think is "the other side."

Jenab, you're downright un-American too. Shame.

I have yet to see a logical refutation of my point that enforcing the existing wage & hours laws will dry up demand and thus the supply. Anyone here want to try arguing against supply & demand? (Any Marxists want to step up to the podium on that?)

And I think I just found a word I've been looking for, for some time now. "Berserker." Norsemen who fought in a state of blind rage and reckless frenzy, whacked out of their skulls on deleriants. Applies equally well to people whose ancestors weren't Nordic.

Face it guys, it's not about protecting the US economy from an influx of foreigners who are willing to work for slave wages. That we can do by simply enforcing the wage & hour laws and letting the market do its job. It's about the sheer joy of smashing someone else and feeling superior. It's about unleashing the base instincts for their own sake.

When you're done, be sure to wash the sticky stuff out of your underwear.

[I_Like_Plants]

gg3 I will certainly say we are Un-Californian.

[Nicholai]

I wasn't speaking about the US in particular, although I did make reference.

The second most populated Turkish city in the world is Berlin (the 1st is Istanbul). Ask any non-Turkish German if Turkish people are considered to be equally German and they will find a very round about way of telling you No.

I'm not saying that disliking foreigners is a good thing, I'm saying it is simply the natural response. If the Cree Indians had a food shortage or experienced overpopulation one year, could they simply send the 'extras' to live with the neighboring Cherokee? Absolutely not.

During the Great Depression, Whites were given the red-carpet treatment by other Whites, while Blacks were trying to do the same for themselves. America was split into racial camps as jobs became harder to find. When money grows scarce, love runs thin.

[mattduke]

Anyone who voted for the patriot act does not get my vote.
Anyone who voted for the Iraq war does not get my vote.
Anyone who is a CFR member does not get my vote.
Anyone who raises taxes does not get my vote.
Anyone who increases government spending does not get my vote.
Anyone who supports torture does not get my vote.

That leaves one.

[I_Like_Plants]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nicholai', '
')The second most populated Turkish city in the world is Berlin (the 1st is Istanbul). Ask any non-Turkish German if Turkish people are considered to be equally German and they will find a very round about way of telling you No.
During the Great Depression, Whites were given the red-carpet treatment by other Whites, while Blacks were trying to do the same for themselves. America was split into racial camps as jobs became harder to find. When money grows scarce, love runs thin.