[greenworm]

This is the end- ...-My only friend the end -Jim Morrison

I decided to begin a search of religions and cultures to see if there are common threads to how they perceive the end.
Here is a list of what I have thus far:
Christianity(With all it's splintered groupings: rastafarians,seven day adventist, jehovah witness, mormons, etc.) - rapture
Islam- moon splits (Mahdi) (sunni/shia)
Mayan/North American tribes(hopi/lakota/cherokee) - times ends
Jewish- end of days
Zoroastrianism-final judgement of fire
Buddhism-Maitreya
Hinduism-evil Kali yuga

The last two really don't provoke the idea of an end, but they do compare well with the others in stating moral decay will be a sign of a coming change. Can anyone think of other religions/cultures that might have eschatological writings that differ from the above groups?

[blukatzen]

Hi Greenworm

The Indo-European cultures have a Pagan past before the forced conversions of xtianity.

You forgot them. In the Northern Traditions that I practice, you forgot Ragnarok, the Twilight of the Gods. It is in our Sagas and Eddas.

I am also trying to reconstruct (with the help of one of the Yahoo lists that I own) the Slavic Heathen Eschatology. I will try to track down the Finnish and Saami Eschatology as well as the Baltic one.
Some of the more scholarly Pagans and Heathens are trying to do that on various yahoo lists over the years, IN THEIR ORIGINAL TEXT with the help of the Cybalist on yahoo listserves. (comparative Indo-European philology). I am also on a Proto-Indo European Religion list that studies various topics here as well.

You have to realize that during the conversions, a lot of xtianity was influenced by Pagan thought. Look at "The Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity: A Sociohistorical Approach to Religious Transformation " by James C. Russell on Amazon.com for starters.

A note:You are looking at Cycles of TIME, here so remember it is of interest to look at the CREATION MYTHS to see how things get recycled!

Good topic! Especially at the turning of the Wheel (that is what Yule means).

Blu

[evilgenius]

It would be a mischaracterization to say that eschatological Christianity is about the rapture. The rapture is an evangelical interpretation that steps well out from historical reference.

[greenworm]

Thanks for the info on both!


Evil Genius, could you clarify this a bit, I'm new to whole thing. I think a Christian flow chart will help, but I can't seem to find one. I thought all christian faiths adhered to the book of revelations, which is what I am considering as their eschatological belief system. Is this not true?

Is this what you are hinting at?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he origins of the doctrine of the rapture are hotly debated. The Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches as well as the Reformed denominations have no tradition of such a teaching and reject the doctrine, in part because they cannot find any reference to it among any of the early Church fathers[1] and because they interpret prophetic scriptures in either an amillennial or postmillenial fashion, as being more spiritual than physical.

[kpeavey]

If the human population and organized religion survives the next century, how will that religion view the events of the next century?
Another tale of Noah or Gilgamesh?
Another tale of Sodom and Gomhorrah?

[Andrew_S]

Ragnarok is the "end times" story of Norse mythology. The world is destroyed but reborn afresh.

[Eli]

Greenworm also the end of the world was what Jesus was talking about there are lots of references throughout the New Testament about the end times. If you look at Jesus spent a lot of time talking about it, there is a lot more to it than just revelation.

Actually, the book of revelation is such a strange book it is hard for most everyone to follow.


I would summarize the Christian overall teachings about the end times like this. The end will come to the earth during a period of great upheaval and destruction, disease and war will rage, poverty will increase, there will be sever ecological destruction a third of all living things will die. At this time the Anti Christ will appear this he will appear to answer all the worlds problems, many people will accept him as a savior of mankind and he will be praised and revered, and no one will be able to buy or sell anything without his mark. He will make peace with what is called Israel. This will be a false peace.

During the years of apparent peace he will prepare for war against Israel. Israel will be destroyed and made desolate.

Then as all hell is breaking loose Jesus Christ will return and he shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

[Plantagenet]

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

The full biblical text reads:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17: "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

This passage contains the main description of the rapture. This passage was written by St. Paul, circa 51 CE, when he was living in Corinth. It was addressed to the Christians at Thessalonica, capital of Macedonia. This was an early writing by St. Paul.

In 1 Thessalonians 4:15, Paul refers to "the Lord's own word" as the source of his teaching. Some interpreters believe that this refers to a personal revelation that he received from God. Others believe that Paul is referring to a tradition circulating in the early Christian movement about Jesus' teachings on this matter. He comforts his readers by assuring them that the Christians who are still alive will "certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." (NIV)

In 1 Thessalonians 4:16 Paul describes the return of Christ to earth. The specific series of events will be:

Christ will descend from the heavens with a shout. This is based on the 1st century CE belief that the earth is the center of the universe, and that heaven is above the firmament -- a solid interface between the atmosphere and heaven, located just a few hundred feet above the earth's surface. Thus, Jesus would have to descend from on high and come through the atmosphere in order to be seen by humans.

The voice of the archangel is heard. Some speculate that this will be the Archangel Michael.

A trumpet call is heard. This may be similar to the trumpet sounded when the Jewish people were gathered together (e.g. Numbers 10:2).

The bodies of faithful Christians will be reconstituted where they were buried. They will rise out of their graves, and ascend into the air to meet Jesus.

Only after the "dead in Christ" have left their graves will "we who are still alive and left" will also ascend to meet Jesus in the air. Paul appears to have believed that he and many Christians who were alive circa 50 CE would still be alive when Christ returns. He was mistaken.

Those who have ascended to be with Jesus will be with him for all eternity.

Most of humanity will remain behind on earth. Most This will include:
The 67% of the world's population that are non-Christian, and
a majority of persons who consider themselves Christians but who have never been saved.

CHEERS!

[greenworm]

I knew Christianity was going to bog me down.

So, rapture does not equal book of revelations?
Rapture is defined by evangelical later on?
Jesus talks about the end times?

Is the answer 'yes' to all?

I guess I am going to start with Christianity and anything associated with the bible first, I can only learn from my mistakes.

[Eli]

Yup, yes to all.


Long story short Jesus comes back the end. Roll credits.

[POAlex]

Interesting topic. One thing that seems to be taught alot these days is that Christians will be removed before the tribulation. Eli and Plant, what are your thoughts on the Rapture?

From my personal study of Scripture I see it coinciding with the Second Coming.

Even the idea that true Christians will be taken from this world before entering the final seven years aka Jacob's Trouble, seems to go contrary to the past 2000 years of persecution, suffering and death many other believers have gone through.

Here are a couple of the many verses which seem to me to indicate a Second Coming removal.

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:40)

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3)

Finally, this verse is a prayer from Jesus to the Father.

"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." (John 17:15)

Alex

[Tanada]

Just to be helpful and pour a little sand in the gears modern Christianity has evolved from four major branches. The oldest branching happened in the very early church, the Catholic Church was formed in Rome, the Coptic church in the mid-east/Egypt. Along side these two were the proto-Baptists who have always beleived that no local church group is subordinate to another church group. Later on when the Roman Empire effectively split into east and west you get the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church. So you have Eastern Catholic, Roman Catholic, Baptist and Coptic. Every branch of modern Christianity in existence today comes from one of those four branches, though if someone were to prove me wrong I would be willing to accept that. Each of the four branches seperated from the others because of doctrinal differences much like the Sunni/Shi'ia split in Islam. Roman Catholics and most of their descendent branches embrace statuary while Eastern Catholics consider them idolitrous as one example. Both types of Catholics and their descendents practice infant Baptism while Baptists and related sects practice Beleivers Baptism is another major doctrinal conflict. Coptic Christians I know the least about, they still survive in the background in Egypt and underground in some other Islamic countries, they use at least one different New Testement Book from the Bible the rest of the branches use.

How much more do you really want to know about the history of the Church?

[greenworm]

The first one I began studying is the Jehovah's Witness. The main reason being -- they visit me alot. However, they seem to have a very twisted past. Can anyone refute the below video? I am not looking to offend, it is just that it blows my mind that stuff like this goes on, if it is indeed real. Is this faith considered evangelical, if not, what category do they fall into.

Warning; if you are a Jehovah's witness, this video may not be suitable for you, it will test your faith in a negative way.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MN5xLY4MSK4

[Eli]

My reading is the same, the rapture comes at the end when Jesus Christ appears. After the period of tribulation.

MT:24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

[POAlex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'M')y reading is the same, the rapture comes at the end when Jesus Christ appears. After the period of tribulation.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('greenworm', 'T')he first one I began studying is the Jehovah's Witness. The main reason being -- they visit me alot. However, they seem to have a very twisted past. Can anyone refute the below video? I am not looking to offend, it is just that it blows my mind that stuff like this goes on, if it is indeed real. Is this faith considered evangelical, if not, what category do they fall into.

Warning; if you are a Jehovah's witness, this video may not be suitable for you, it will test your faith in a negative way.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MN5xLY4MSK4

[greenworm]

The next one I studied was the seven day adventist which have a strange history. I think it still operates today. This faction grew from the writings of a girl who began these writings roughly around the time she got hit in the head with a big rock. Yes, I am not kidding. And like the aforementioned JWs they focused on the end times and were also incorrect in their predictions for an actual date. Anyone have anything to add concerning the seven day adventist?

[greenworm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')o voting. No Halloween. No Christmas. No Birthdays.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('greenworm', 'T')he first one I began studying is the Jehovah's Witness. The main reason being -- they visit me alot. However, they seem to have a very twisted past. Can anyone refute the below video? I am not looking to offend, it is just that it blows my mind that stuff like this goes on, if it is indeed real. Is this faith considered evangelical, if not, what category do they fall into.

Warning; if you are a Jehovah's witness, this video may not be suitable for you, it will test your faith in a negative way.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MN5xLY4MSK4

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('greenworm', 'T')he next one I studied was the seven day adventist which have a strange history. I think it still operates today. This faction grew from the writings of a girl who began these writings roughly around the time she got hit in the head with a big rock. Yes, I am not kidding. And like the aforementioned JWs they focused on the end times and were also incorrect in their predictions for an actual date. Anyone have anything to add concerning the seven day adventist?