[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '[')b]could all take the train instead.

That's what I'm talkin' about. Avoid the radical stuff. I'm down with that.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'N')o, we don't always have to rape the debate by being so radical.

[eastbay]

Steam cannon, great picture.

You could stack those train cars 10 high and 10 miles long and it still wouldn't even get close to replacing just the cars alone.

Ok, seriously, I think what's needed is a continuous never-ending string and stream of double-decker electric passenger and freight train cars 24/7/365.25 crisscrossing the USA night and day to make a reasonable replacement for both current air, auto, and truck traffic. No need for any more cabooses because there would be no end car!

But hey! I like trains too! If we all band together we can certainly make that happen using switchgrass or whatever it's called. Oh yeah. Sign me up.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'B')ut hey! I like trains too! If we all band together we can certainly make that happen using switchgrass or whatever it's called. Oh yeah. Sign me up.

[bob9000]

I'm surprised there's even a debate on this at all.

Of course you can sustainably farm.
Of course you can put more carbon in than you take out.
Of course you can do it economically.

That's never been what this board's been about.

This board is about "can you eternally sustain a 2-3% annual growth in...well...just about everything?"

And the answer is no. The raw materials and infrastructure involved in converting the world to this type of agriculture is off the charts. Maybe if we'd started this way, but not now.

Sure, a well-meaning organised collective of people could do alright for themselves, history is replete with examples.

But globally, with everyone understanding the sacrifices they'd have to make?

You need to understand the difference between optimism and naivety.

[eastbay]

But on the plus side, maybe after a massive population crash we could leave behind wonderful "agrichar" soils for future peoples to wonder how they got there. Amusingly it seems that's happened before...

Now there's something in which we can ALL participate... heh.

[TheDude]

Sustainability, Energy Independence and Agricultural Policy. Really excellent article on biomass power by Engineer-Poet over at TOD.

Would like to read more on gasifiers. The Terra Preta article mentions some guy at Burning Man building one out of old pipes etc.

[efarmer]

I see the wisdom of storing carbon in the soil to sequester it but I am always a curmudgeon as to where you get the pyrolysis energy without going naughty on carbon balance again. What I especially like about this site is the ability to probe, explore, and collectively separate the viable seeds of solution from book advertising ploys or government subsidy boondoggles that are election solutions and not energy solutions. It is a pleasure to continue to politely rub noggins with everyone.

[steam_cannon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', 'I') see the wisdom of storing carbon in the soil to sequester it but I am always a curmudgeon as to where you get the pyrolysis energy without going naughty on carbon balance again.

[basil_hayden]

In the end, all you rigamarole does is turn solar energy into mechanical power. Why not just use PV cells and electric cars, and avoid all the other infrastructure baloney, as well as clearing all land masses to grow switchgrass or whatever?

Hydrogen is crap, biofuels not only fuck with food prices, but there are sooooo many ways to cheat and not account for true emissions that a structure that will work effectively can't be applied to yet another scheme of yours.

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'N')o, we don't always have to rape the debate by being so radical.